William's 1993 480ES Two-Tone

[100]

Died how?!? Does it need a visit?

Ran out of electricity! Dash lights dulled, engine stuttered and then completely died. Jumped it on leads and as soon as they came off it died again. Perhaps this is related to my previous electrical mysteries(?!). In any case, I think Will is going to assist in some diagnostics on Sunday and see what we find. I've yet to tow it back from the pub...

Such are the level of services provided at the 480 clinic, it will always benefit from a visit!

[jifflemon]

I seem to recall the charging rate was ok when we checked it; happy to do a walk through with Will once diagnosis begins or if you can limp it here I’ll give it a full diag

[100]

I seem to recall the charging rate was ok when we checked it; happy to do a walk through with Will once diagnosis begins or if you can limp it here I’ll give it a full diag

Much appreciated, we may well give you a call if the issue isn't obvious!

[WillC9303]

Did a few odd jobs to SGO this week. First I de-badged it, as I'd rather have no badges than broken ones (still after some Limited Edition and 2.0i badges, mind)



Thanks to @dcwalker who sourced me a replacement passenger door pocket and boot light housing. I now have a functioning boot light



Lastly, I resealed the long range lights as they both had significant amounts of condensation in them and that just got on my nerves. They are now crystal clear. I'm just praying that they stay that way when I wake up tomorrow morning and aren't all fogged up again!
I think I'll go and wash the car now...

[jifflemon]

Lastly, I resealed the long range lights as they both had significant amounts of condensation in them and that just got on my nerves. They are now crystal clear. I'm just praying that they stay that way when I wake up tomorrow morning and aren't all fogged up again!

Oh they will!! I’m currently experimenting the silica gel bags inside the lamp to collect the moisture, which is then heated up when the lights are in use.

Shall let you know how it gets on

[MisterH]

Lastly, I resealed the long range lights as they both had significant amounts of condensation in them and that just got on my nerves. They are now crystal clear. I'm just praying that they stay that way when I wake up tomorrow morning and aren't all fogged up again!

Oh they will!! I’m currently experimenting the silica gel bags inside the lamp to collect the moisture, which is then heated up when the lights are in use.

Shall let you know how it gets on

Ooh getting scientific!

Looks to be progressing well, I have just filmed a video with a well known channel about how good these are for young people, I think you've made a sound choice

[WillC9303]

quick update on SGO's progress:
After re-sealing the long range lights a couple weeks ago, I've had absolutely no condensation in them whatsoever since. Even after downpour and some very frosty mornings they've stayed crystal clear! If anyone is having problems with condensation, what worked for me was to completely carve out all of the old sealant, clean the ridge all the way round with some white spirit and use Sika Sikaflex EBT+ adhesive & filler (yellow can) and re-apply generously (but tidily). Then put the lens back on, clean any excess sealant and leave for 24 hours to dry.

One not so good decision I made was to replace all of the gauge cluster lights because a couple had blown. Buying the cheapest unbranded bulbs you can find on eBay will almost certainly make life more difficult. Due to only half of them working now, I'm going to have to use electrical tape to secure each one down in the exact position it needs to make contact with the circuit board. Never cheap out, not even on bulbs!
(I also finally figured out how to add a profile picture)

[WillC9303]

Not really the update I wanted to give:

SGO has pretty much come to a grinding halt as far a progress is concerned. While I sourced a couple of odd accessories that I wanted, such as the aux gauge (still trying to find the sender unit and adapter) and neat little cassette drawer + replaced the broken battery clamp with a shiny new one, SGO seems to be putting up a fight in pretty much every single job I try and do. I also have sourced an ignition barrel from the forum, but whoever fitted the aftermarket barrel to my car completely butchered all the wiring and cut a load of it off, so I don't even know where to start in fixing that. It's probably an easy fix for someone who knows what they're doing, but I'll admit, most electrical jobs are beyond my ability.

SGO needs new brake discs and pads. Easy job right? Well, if the calliper bolts weren't chemically fused to the hub, then yes. And that's both the front and rear. I've tried using a blowtorch, breaker bar and of course WD40 but to no avail.
I also thought about taking the front seats out to clean the grimy interior and try and find out why the heated seats don't work. Turns out the bolts holding the rails down are glued to the chassis. What about the rear seats then? Well, the back rests on both the rear seats refuse to budge, even though I have followed how to remove them step by step. (Undoing clips at the side, folding them down then pulling upwards). Then I tried taking out the rear seat cushion. Of course the front flip is rusted to hell and won't push inwards, even after using a hammer on the end of a flat head screwdriver to try and push it in.

Some other problems have developed over the past few weeks as well. I now have quite a substantial leak from the rear of the car, which has completely ruined the boot carpet, as it is black with mould and is falling apart. The worst part is that I can't even locate where the leak is coming from! The side windows, boot seal and sunroof are completely dry, but I know the problem is at least one of those things. As such, I now have a puddle in the boot every time it rains.
The Info centre is also playing up; it's very inconsistent and will sometimes give an engine temperature reading of 250 Celsius on start-up. It also thinks I have 30 miles of range left when I know it's got at least a third of a tank. External temperature readout is now -40 Celsius, so I guess I live in Northern Siberia now. I read a while ago that 1992+ models had improved electronics......convincing stuff.....

SGO has also developed a fuel leak somewhere as there is a really strong smell of fumes when running.

On top of all that, The one thing I REALLY wanted to get done as soon as possibly (welding) isn't going to happen any time soon the by the looks of it. None of the body shops I have contacted have even sent me a quote yet, despite me contacting them half a dozen times. (Not SGO's fault, but still frustrating).

There is at least one bit of good news. The original VC802 radio was broken, and I managed to source a VC602 radio which was originally from a scrap 480 S model. While it's kind of a downgrade from the 802 radio that was fitted to my ES, it at least works, which is something. That job was surprisingly easy. After I had sourced the right radio removal tool, It was as easy as unplugging the old radio and plugging the new one in. Works like a dream. (You can tell my expectations are low when I'm genuinely surprised that a radio designed for the 480 works with my 480.)

I know project cars are going to have problems along the way, but there are SO many jobs to do on this car, and despite most of them being within my ability, I can't even begin to do them because of some stupid rusted bolt or clip gatekeeping the job. Sorry this sounds like a rant, but I really want to get this car up and running but it seems like for every thing I fix, something else breaks. I guess it's just one of those slow couple of months.

At least I have figured out SGO's personality now. Think Herbie, but spiteful, petty and defiant (unlike Herbie, SGO can't drive itself mainly because the tyres are 20 years old and clutch is knackered.)

Probably the only worthwhile picture posting here:

[dcwalker]

OK William, deep breath...and out.........calmer?

I'm not being flippant when I say everything you describe is simply the joys of owning a 480 - or, indeed, any other old car.

So:
seized bolts are a perennial problem - you can get an induction heater socket that usually solves the problem - Jeff (jifflemon) can tell you more;

if your heated seated don't work you can check without removing whether the wires are plugged in. If they are then the most likely culprit is a failed thermostat in the seat cushion. These can still be obtained (at considerable cost) from Skandix but were the same on several Volvos of the era so you may be able to source some elsewhere;

seat bolts are torx and always hard to remove. They have locking fluid on them plus the underseal etc tends to glue them in place too. Get in square with a good torx head and a long bar for leverage...danger is the heads strip very easily so be warned;

info centre - have you removed the instrument cluster and checked that all is firmly connected and seated? Likewise the connector at the back of the selector switch?

boot leaks - OK, other things you don't mention are the light units and also the wiring loom at the top of the hatch. If the rubber there is perished water gets into it then runs inside the hatch itself and out at the bottom. Wrapping the insulated part between body and hatch in self-amalgamating tape has worked for me...

fuel leak - have you changed the fuel filter? In any event, are the connections to it good?

IIRC the main difference between the VC602 and the VC802 is that the 802 is an RDS radio. It might have one or two more tape functions as well, but there isn't much difference.

Welding - typical! Persevere - someone will want your business...

Tyres and clutch - well, sadly these are just fair wear and tear.

Don't give up! SGO will eventually repay you I promise!

David

[dragonflyjewels]

So sorry to hear your tale of woes - sounds as though SGO is showing you all her problems now she is in the hands of someone who cares.

Once she is sorted out and back on the road you will discover the joy of driving a 480. There's a reason so many owners have had multiple 480s, and those that have sold theirs often bitterly regret doing so.

I have had my 2ltr since 2001 - I couldn't bear to part with it and let someone else have all the pleasure ! Certainly don't give up, that's a rare and desirable 480 you have there even with all the problems.

[WillC9303]

OK William, deep breath...and out.........calmer?

I'm not being flippant when I say everything you describe is simply the joys of owning a 480 - or, indeed, any other old car.

So:
seized bolts are a perennial problem - you can get an induction heater socket that usually solves the problem - Jeff (jifflemon) can tell you more;

if your heated seated don't work you can check without removing whether the wires are plugged in. If they are then the most likely culprit is a failed thermostat in the seat cushion. These can still be obtained (at considerable cost) from Skandix but were the same on several Volvos of the era so you may be able to source some elsewhere;

seat bolts are torx and always hard to remove. They have locking fluid on them plus the underseal etc tends to glue them in place too. Get in square with a good torx head and a long bar for leverage...danger is the heads strip very easily so be warned;

info centre - have you removed the instrument cluster and checked that all is firmly connected and seated? Likewise the connector at the back of the selector switch?

boot leaks - OK, other things you don't mention are the light units and also the wiring loom at the top of the hatch. If the rubber there is perished water gets into it then runs inside the hatch itself and out at the bottom. Wrapping the insulated part between body and hatch in self-amalgamating tape has worked for me...

fuel leak - have you changed the fuel filter? In any event, are the connections to it good?

IIRC the main difference between the VC602 and the VC802 is that the 802 is an RDS radio. It might have one or two more tape functions as well, but there isn't much difference.

Welding - typical! Persevere - someone will want your business...

Tyres and clutch - well, sadly these are just fair wear and tear.

Don't give up! SGO will eventually repay you I promise!

David

Thanks for the helpful reply David. In hindsight, writing a wall of text rant detailing everything wrong with my car straight after I'd battled with the rear seats for about 3 hours without any progress wasn't the best idea I've ever had. Apologies for my 'end of the world' tone. I was in a right old state :/

Infocentre: I've checked all the connections and even sprayed a bit of the old '40 in there and it's still being weird. Possibly the moisture & damp in the car has something to do with it? After all, it's started to smell like a public toilet in there now.

Boot leaks: I took on board what you've said and I think you're right - I've narrowed the leak down to the driver's side taillight. I don't want to seal it up, but I'm not sure how to stop the leak any other way, unless you can get gasket sets?

Fuel leak: AFAIK, it's still got the original fuel filter. From 2010 onwards, the service history is almost non-existent, so unless it's been replaced in that time period (unlikely considering the mileage it's done in the last 20 years) then I'm going to assume it's the original.

Seats: I've used all sorts of techniques to get the seat rails off. I think it will have to be a job for a garage unfortunately. It also turns out that there was a used needle or something like that underneath the back seat which I had the displeasure of stabbing my finger with it when I was blindly fumbling back there. I don't know if it's got any substance in it, and neither of the previous owners fit the profile of a drug user, so I guess it's just one of those mysteries. When I finally get the seat out I'll be able to tell exactly what it is or what's in it.

Clutch and tyres I was never concerned about as they are both things I always knew needed replacing. I was planning on changing the clutch myself, but considering how difficult some simple tasks have turned out to be so far, it doesn't fill me with confidence

As for welding, I've been speaking to the guy directly on WhatsApp and he's just ended up ignoring my texts and calls. I think I'll pay him a visit and ask him about the quote in person considering I don't live that far away.

[WillC9303]

So sorry to hear your tale of woes - sounds as though SGO is showing you all her problems now she is in the hands of someone who cares.

Once she is sorted out and back on the road you will discover the joy of driving a 480. There's a reason so many owners have had multiple 480s, and those that have sold theirs often bitterly regret doing so.

I have had my 2ltr since 2001 - I couldn't bear to part with it and let someone else have all the pleasure ! Certainly don't give up, that's a rare and desirable 480 you have there even with all the problems.

Thanks for the kind words, It's my dream to get her up to factory condition again. Am I correct in thinking I am the only member on this forum with a 2.0 Two-Tone?

[dcwalker]

that's a bit more positive sounding!

Fingers crossed regarding the needle under the seat

At least if a garage frees off the seat belts they can put right anything they damage doing so.

Info centre could well be damp getting in, yes. So in turn let's find the leak. I will pm you regarding light seals...

Hang in there, it'll be worth it in the end!

David

[100]

Whilst your complaints are valid, at least you have the best colour…

[MisterH]

So sorry to hear this Will, but I know you are in absolutely the right place to get it going again.

Now the things that I can comment on.

Info Centre: you may already have tried this, but Take the dash out and have a good look behind it, check the circuit board is in good shape, if it is, then take a look at the big block connectors that plug in. Get some Contact cleaner and WD40, and squirt it into the connectors to get the connections working well. While you're at it have a go at getting any other electrical contacts as it can't hurt (usually) and it'll possibly sort a few other problems you didn't know you had. If all else fails, give it a Dutch Holiday (no not that type) and see if Brinkie can make head or tail of it (he will probably make both) and that should be the dash sorted.

Bodyshop: Well I know you live Woking way, but if you are really determined I know one near me who are very good, and will (hopefully) be doing mine (again) soon, although it will probably be unfeasible given that it will be hard for them to come out and give it a quote. Although if it isn't hindering the cars driveability, then once it is ready for such a trip feel free to drive down to mine and we can go see them, it'll be a good shakedown for it and could give you some more clues as to any issues.

These cars do have a tendency to throw curveballs, mine was practically perfect in every way, then one summer evening it was possessed by an evil spirit, or so I thought. The wipers were going haywire, and would only stop with the passenger door open. Only that this stopped the indicators. I opened up CEM and found that a tiny bit of residue had breached one of the circuits on the motherboard. Plugged a new one in, totally fine. You will get there, you are not alone

[jifflemon]

According to google maps, you can be at my house in 1hr 25 mins.

We can hot spanner everything and get you back in a positive mood. Just a thought.

[WillC9303]

Whilst your complaints are valid, at least you have the best colour…

Well yes I suppose there's that at least

[WillC9303]

So sorry to hear this Will, but I know you are in absolutely the right place to get it going again.

Now the things that I can comment on.

Info Centre: you may already have tried this, but Take the dash out and have a good look behind it, check the circuit board is in good shape, if it is, then take a look at the big block connectors that plug in. Get some Contact cleaner and WD40, and squirt it into the connectors to get the connections working well. While you're at it have a go at getting any other electrical contacts as it can't hurt (usually) and it'll possibly sort a few other problems you didn't know you had. If all else fails, give it a Dutch Holiday (no not that type) and see if Brinkie can make head or tail of it (he will probably make both) and that should be the dash sorted.

Bodyshop: Well I know you live Woking way, but if you are really determined I know one near me who are very good, and will (hopefully) be doing mine (again) soon, although it will probably be unfeasible given that it will be hard for them to come out and give it a quote. Although if it isn't hindering the cars driveability, then once it is ready for such a trip feel free to drive down to mine and we can go see them, it'll be a good shakedown for it and could give you some more clues as to any issues.

These cars do have a tendency to throw curveballs, mine was practically perfect in every way, then one summer evening it was possessed by an evil spirit, or so I thought. The wipers were going haywire, and would only stop with the passenger door open. Only that this stopped the indicators. I opened up CEM and found that a tiny bit of residue had breached one of the circuits on the motherboard. Plugged a new one in, totally fine. You will get there, you are not alone

Thanks for the reply, I'm hoping that the info centre just 'fixes itself' at this point. It's not inherently broken, its just giving wildly inaccurate readings so I'm not too worried at this stage now. I might bring it inside to dry out and hope that fixes it. It sounds like your car was possessed! I can thankfully say while mine isn't possessed per se, I would describe it as 'throwing a tantrum' If it does get worse though, I won't hesitate to describe it as such

As for the body shop - do tell - The one's I've tried contacting in and around Woking clearly don't want my business, so I may as well go elsewhere.

[Alan 480]

front disc caliper bolts have a very fine thread and an integral washer with serrated teeth under teh head (as well as stud lock) I resorted to using a thin angle grinder disc to cut HALF the head , battered the head into the open space and after much swearing and swing off a large bar with a 'wrong size' six sided impact socket driven on it they eventually gave up the fight, but did this on three or fourof them

Relaced with high tensile 12.9 allen bolts and a small rubber bung in the hex (with grease) to make removal a little easier for future changing of hubs/drive shafts etc.

for rear discs then they can be removed if you file a tiny (and I mean tiny) corner off the caliper and make sure the wheel stud holes are sitting in a square with horizontal/vertical, wiggle and will come free. as long as the CSK is at 3, 9, 6 or 12 o'clock (assuming the younger generation still can use an analogue clock/watch)

I think there are just 'bumps' on rear beam where the heads of the bolts should be.....

[dragonflyjewels]

Am I correct in thinking I am the only member on this forum with a 2.0 Two-Tone?

As far as I know, yes. But then, not everyone posts and even if they do they might not mention which 480 they have. We've certainly never had a 2ltr TT at a meeting.