1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

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jifflemon
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by jifflemon » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:28 pm

Well, as it's physically smaller, you'd be able to Heat wrap the bad boy too.

They survive on turbos with the turbo sitting right above it (ok, with a judicious use of heat shielding too!)

cranna21
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:36 pm

yeah exactly - my thoughts too - i've got an oem heatsheild on mine too, and i'll have the manifold heat wrapped still, then i'll wrap the starter as well :)
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:06 pm

cranna21 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:36 pm
yeah exactly - my thoughts too - i've got an oem heatsheild on mine too, and i'll have the manifold heat wrapped still, then i'll wrap the starter as well :)
all of the above only slows the rate of heat transfer :wink:

you also need a source of cold (cooler) air . .. . . ..

or a starting handle at the back of the O/S front wheel????

or how about a water cooled one (not suggesting this in a serious way :D ) but we had 500kW water cooled 3.3kV beasts at the mill and they survived
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:28 am

i think i might notch the chassis and keep my 1/2" milwaukee gun with an extension and socket in the car! the modern day crank start :rofl:
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:35 pm

cranna21 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:28 am
i think i might notch the chassis and keep my 1/2" milwaukee gun with an extension and socket in the car! the modern day crank start :rofl:
like that idea, tank of air in back where passenger should sit? :hopping:
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

cranna21
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:21 pm

Alan 480 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:35 pm
cranna21 wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:28 am
i think i might notch the chassis and keep my 1/2" milwaukee gun with an extension and socket in the car! the modern day crank start :rofl:
like that idea, tank of air in back where passenger should sit? :hopping:
sounds a great plan I think :lol:

Got a little more done last night, got a wee jig fabbed up as a reference point to use when I cut the rear stabiliser arm bracket and chassis leg out for replacement, so will get that section of leg and bracket out tonight with a bit of luck, a little daunting but no time like the present!

Image

Image

ALSO! nabbed an absolute bargain from Facebook marketplace last night, a set of super rare Volvo 940 Galaxy alloys, 15 miles from home for £60!! probably a £400 set of wheels in their current condition, if refurbed and with a good set of tyres probably closer to £700! A happy unnecessary purchase :)

Image
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

Alan 480
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:58 pm

that looks like a decent plan, no other way to make / measure it .. . . .

when I did the rear arms for SS1 I used a section of kitchen worktop as the flat surface and made up similar points.

I was lucky and for the other side I just flipped it over and welded on the shock absorber mount :wink:
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:12 am

as far as growing arms and legs on this winters budget go, I think I'd make an octopus jealous at this point... new welder and consumables inbound, make a proper job of this :wall:
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:33 pm

Alan 480 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:48 pm
I'll make you an offer for the original rear torque arms later . .. . .

I assume you are getting the adjustable ones from usual supply?

if any consolation I have already made some 'new' rear mounts for the rear torque arms that bolt onto the existing chassis legs, remove thin parts, replace with 1/8th thick and large plates within.
Sorry to butt in, I'm in the market for new rear torque rods - had to cut mine out - Skandix have them - but they are not adjustable. Where is this usual supply you speak of? I will also be making some new body mounting points so 'adjustability' would be good. Feel free to drop us a PM rather than hijacking this excellent thread. Sorry cranna.

Thank you - loving the engine pics btw.

cranna21
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:11 am

Jay-Kay-Em wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:33 pm
Alan 480 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:48 pm
I'll make you an offer for the original rear torque arms later . .. . .

I assume you are getting the adjustable ones from usual supply?

if any consolation I have already made some 'new' rear mounts for the rear torque arms that bolt onto the existing chassis legs, remove thin parts, replace with 1/8th thick and large plates within.
Sorry to butt in, I'm in the market for new rear torque rods - had to cut mine out - Skandix have them - but they are not adjustable. Where is this usual supply you speak of? I will also be making some new body mounting points so 'adjustability' would be good. Feel free to drop us a PM rather than hijacking this excellent thread. Sorry cranna.

Thank you - loving the engine pics btw.
Hi Jay-Kay-Em,

no worries about the hijacking, that's what it's for! haha

I don't really have a usual supplier, adjustable rear torque arms are custom so to speak, no one that I know of as of yet makes them but I can certainly update when I know otherwise! :)
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:21 am

Ok Thanks Cranna... guess they wouldn’t be too hard to convert, the old ones were a hollow tube anyways. It’s just having the courage to put the angle grinder through new ones you have just paid SKANDIX money for !

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:52 am

my intention was to send one of my spares off to GizFAB in due course... ;)
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:12 am

cranna21 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:52 am
my intention was to send one of my spares off to GizFAB in due course... ;)
Ah OK. Sadly I have no spares and my old ones had to be cut out so I have nothing for GizFAB to pattern.

I might just drop him an email to say when he receives yours for modification, to also pattern them and gauge his interest in making some. If you don't mind that is. It all depends what bushes/materials he carries on the shelf I guess.

He scratch built a Panhard which i'm told he received from the powder coaters Friday. I look forward to seeing that.

Let us know when you send him your spares. Thanks :-)

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:16 am

Yeah my intention was for him to pattern them!

I think i have a pair with the additional brackets on them so he could pattern those and also supply those without the additional brackets for i think its ABS sensors?
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:09 am

Yeah amazingly there are two part numbers; ABS and non-ABS.

I think the ABS version has two micro-studs to accept the wheel speed sensor wiring clips. Seems like overkill to me when said wiring could just be cable tied!

Let us know, many thanks, JKM

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:35 pm

Jay-Kay-Em wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:09 am
Yeah amazingly there are two part numbers; ABS and non-ABS.

I think the ABS version has two micro-studs to accept the wheel speed sensor wiring clips. Seems like overkill to me when said wiring could just be cable tied!

Let us know, many thanks, JKM
like when the wee plastic fitting is broken?
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Anadinolin » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:42 am

Just a quick question, would a Renault F4RT engine be easy to fit into one of these?

I have a spare one and a naughty 460 turbo, the idea to combine the two did come up but I don't know what to look for, I know it fits in the bay with very little room, but that was floated in with a hoist.

Cheers for any advice 👍
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by jifflemon » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:23 am

Anadinolin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:42 am
Just a quick question, would a Renault F4RT engine be easy to fit into one of these?

I have a spare one and a naughty 460 turbo, the idea to combine the two did come up but I don't know what to look for, I know it fits in the bay with very little room, but that was floated in with a hoist.

Cheers for any advice 👍
In theory, yes. But theory is a wonderful thing.

Physically it'll drop in - making it work is the trickier bit!

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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by Alan 480 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:57 pm

cranna21 wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:12 am
as far as growing arms and legs on this winters budget go, I think I'd make an octopus jealous at this point... new welder and consumables inbound, make a proper job of this :wall:
for more arms and legs then I'd suggest that rather than using an adjustable panhard you should put in a Watts linkage for the left to right.

at present the fore-n-aft is already on Watts so this would be an easy fix? simply repeat the 'sub-chassis' mounting from RHS to LHS and and a bush in the centre of beam axle . .. . .


only a thought?
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

cranna21
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Re: 1991 480 ES "Williams" 2.0 16v conversion!

Post by cranna21 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:49 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:23 am
Anadinolin wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:42 am
Just a quick question, would a Renault F4RT engine be easy to fit into one of these?

I have a spare one and a naughty 460 turbo, the idea to combine the two did come up but I don't know what to look for, I know it fits in the bay with very little room, but that was floated in with a hoist.

Cheers for any advice 👍
In theory, yes. But theory is a wonderful thing.

Physically it'll drop in - making it work is the trickier bit!
Not 100% correct, if it is a 'true' F4RT Megane 225 engine or similar it's unlikely to bolt in on standard 400 mounts, they slightly changed the structure of the block for that generation of F4R, water pump and oil pump area totally different arrangement so thus the mounting points on the front of the block are different, even the plain old F4R's from the 172/182 clio's are different and somewhere in between the F7R and the F4RT in architecture
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 208bhp/230nm
'91 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'09 C30 2.0d R-Design

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