brake fade - possible cure?
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- robkendall
- 480 Is my middle name
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brake fade - possible cure?
was thinking that the 480s seem to suffer from brake fade quite a lot....especially if you drive your car hard.
i know that expensive pads can help, but have thouhgt about a possible reduction in brake fade.
basically air cooling.
if you look at some of the exotics...especially the koneisningingthing it has channeled air onto the discs, which then vents through the vented disc.
all this basically is, is piped air from the front......in the case of the car above, the air then travels through the disc, but it should also work with solids?
im looking at piping air from the front grill under the bumper, and passing it to the back of the discs....at this point, it will just blow over the discs, but in future i want to look at making it go through the vented discs
(am making some grp disc plate things(the bit thats always rusted at the back of the disc!) that will accept an air channel)
does anyone know what the 'optimum' temperature 480 brakes should run at?
can anyone see benefit in this, or is it just a pipe dream that isnt worth the effort?
I know the F1 trucks spary water onto their discs, but obviously different kettle of fish!
rgrds
rob
i know that expensive pads can help, but have thouhgt about a possible reduction in brake fade.
basically air cooling.
if you look at some of the exotics...especially the koneisningingthing it has channeled air onto the discs, which then vents through the vented disc.
all this basically is, is piped air from the front......in the case of the car above, the air then travels through the disc, but it should also work with solids?
im looking at piping air from the front grill under the bumper, and passing it to the back of the discs....at this point, it will just blow over the discs, but in future i want to look at making it go through the vented discs
(am making some grp disc plate things(the bit thats always rusted at the back of the disc!) that will accept an air channel)
does anyone know what the 'optimum' temperature 480 brakes should run at?
can anyone see benefit in this, or is it just a pipe dream that isnt worth the effort?
I know the F1 trucks spary water onto their discs, but obviously different kettle of fish!
rgrds
rob
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- robkendall
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isnt there some concerns over cross drilled grooved discs and shattering?
a decent airflow through the discs should be enough to keep the temp down?
rgrds
rob
a decent airflow through the discs should be enough to keep the temp down?
rgrds
rob
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http://www.ebcbrakes.com used to have a graph demonstrating optimal temps for braking but I can't find it at the moment.
If memory serves though - brakes running standard pads are good for braking from cold to 450C before they get upset - but I found the killer in our cars is when the heat gets run through the caliper and boils up the brake fluid - which is what? 120C? I guess - the specs on DOT5.1 must be around on the net somewhere.
You could be onto something beautiful my friend, but if your forced cooling doesn't work - I used to know a man who retired from his life of building brake systems for Works rally cars not long ago - who could probably sort you out with some calliper-fluid recirculators (and maybe even a hydraulic handbrake and split control braking and... I'm getting carried away - I like brakes!!! )
If memory serves though - brakes running standard pads are good for braking from cold to 450C before they get upset - but I found the killer in our cars is when the heat gets run through the caliper and boils up the brake fluid - which is what? 120C? I guess - the specs on DOT5.1 must be around on the net somewhere.
You could be onto something beautiful my friend, but if your forced cooling doesn't work - I used to know a man who retired from his life of building brake systems for Works rally cars not long ago - who could probably sort you out with some calliper-fluid recirculators (and maybe even a hydraulic handbrake and split control braking and... I'm getting carried away - I like brakes!!! )
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- Murf
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if you look at low spec 440's, instead of having front fogs they have a pair of grilles covering up the hole.
i often think that you could do away with fogs and have a small duct feeding to each of the front discs fed from these grilles.
how often do you use your fogs and how often do you use your brakes??
i often think that you could do away with fogs and have a small duct feeding to each of the front discs fed from these grilles.
how often do you use your fogs and how often do you use your brakes??
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- robkendall
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mr brascos 480 has funny grill things instead of fogs.......so the 480 does have the grill setup without fogs.....could maybe turn these into induction ports?Murf wrote:if you look at low spec 440's, instead of having front fogs they have a pair of grilles covering up the hole.
i often think that you could do away with fogs and have a small duct feeding to each of the front discs fed from these grilles.
how often do you use your fogs and how often do you use your brakes??
its such a a simple idea....two pipes from the front, even just hanging around the disc are going to lower the temp dramatically with ported air.
i want to have the disc cover bits (the rusty bits behind the discs etc) to have loads of holes in them to act as a sort of diffuser, but it will obviously compress the air a little, maybe giving more force to the air flow?
this can then just blow against the back of the disc.....should work for everyone then.
vented though.......if i can get the air into the centre of the disc, the air can then be forced up through the vents, so cold air will actually pass between the layers of disc...taking away warm air!
thats the theory anyway.....will have to see how it works in practice!!
rgrds
rob
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- robkendall
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solid blanks, but not all S variants had them....mine has fogsMurf wrote:was it just the solid blanks that all the S models have or was it the kinda lattice like ones with the holes in?
volvo standardisation remember mr murphy!!
lol
rob
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- VanDerGraaf
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My Turbo had the lattice-type plates over the fog light spaces when i got her.robkendall wrote:solid blanks, but not all S variants had them....mine has fogsMurf wrote:was it just the solid blanks that all the S models have or was it the kinda lattice like ones with the holes in?
volvo standardisation remember mr murphy!!
lol
rob
Must admit they are good spaces for air type mods. Although i fitted fogs, i kept the blanking plates, may come in useful in the future....
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- robkendall
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i want to keep the fogs....i like em, but im thinking of doing something with the bumper anyway....i might add a couple of low key 'bullet' type intakes either side of the fgs, specifically for this.
all still at the drawing board stage at the mo.....ive yet to get a 'disc protector' type thing off in one piece, or at least good enough to use as a template!!
rgrds
rob
all still at the drawing board stage at the mo.....ive yet to get a 'disc protector' type thing off in one piece, or at least good enough to use as a template!!
rgrds
rob
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This might sound daft, but are sure your brake fade isn't linked to ageing brake fluid? As brake fluid ages it absorbs alot of water, if the brakes get very hot the water boils in the lines and causes major fade....
I've flushed my brakes right though to remove all the old fluid. Emtpy the reservoir( with a ciringe) , pour fresh fluid in and bleed the brakes right through. We got some pretty mingin looking black stuff out of it!
I've got red dot grooved disks and pads. Suffer a little fad when really thrashing it so i'm gonna put larger, later calipers and vented disks on the front. Regards, Edd
I've flushed my brakes right though to remove all the old fluid. Emtpy the reservoir( with a ciringe) , pour fresh fluid in and bleed the brakes right through. We got some pretty mingin looking black stuff out of it!
I've got red dot grooved disks and pads. Suffer a little fad when really thrashing it so i'm gonna put larger, later calipers and vented disks on the front. Regards, Edd
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- robkendall
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hi ed
its not something specific to me really,just a thought in general for the turbos and modded turbos?
i always replace all the fluids i can in cars when i get em, that way , i know theyre new...best way really.
ive still noticed a bit of fade though....but i really do hammer the brakes
(scary when approaching a junction at XX mph, and you do an imitation of an oil tanker stopping)
just thought it might help to keep the temp down around the general brake area?
rgrds
rob
its not something specific to me really,just a thought in general for the turbos and modded turbos?
i always replace all the fluids i can in cars when i get em, that way , i know theyre new...best way really.
ive still noticed a bit of fade though....but i really do hammer the brakes
(scary when approaching a junction at XX mph, and you do an imitation of an oil tanker stopping)
just thought it might help to keep the temp down around the general brake area?
rgrds
rob
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- martinholmesuk
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It's not going to work with no air flow. Reducing brake fade is for when your going down the lanes and not going to stop fully. Trying to keep the brakes cooler that's all.pol wrote:I'm more than happy with my brakes since changing fluid. Don't seem to have faded yet...
If you run air ducts to the brakes, what happens then if you brake hard to a stand still?
pol
once you stop there going to heat up fast.
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- robkendall
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obviously the less forward motion the less air flow.....dunno really, the benefit might not be worth the hassle of doing it.....just wondered is all......i tend to brake hard while going fast, then drop down and speed up again to pass things, so for me would be good, as overall speed and revs dont drop much? (other than for the few seconds of intense braking!)pol wrote:I'm more than happy with my brakes since changing fluid. Don't seem to have faded yet...
If you run air ducts to the brakes, what happens then if you brake hard to a stand still?
pol
rgrds
rob
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- Dan the 480 Man
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I think it's worth doing. When i made my cold feed for my air filter, i noticed a massive (well, i say massive-it was noticeable!) difference in the engine temp, and the pipe i used for the air feed was only 4" in diameter.
I think it's def. something worth looking into-i hate the brake fade i get on my solids. I thought about some sort of venting infront of the wheel, but i don't want to start messing around with bodywork. I think the secret will be to keep the feed as short as possible so it's as direct as you can get it. Keep the fogs, just place the feed's somewhere else. If it's coming directly from the front of the car it won't make much difference anyway.
It's going to be one of those things you'll never know until you try. I'd give it a go-even if it's not a vast improvement, there will be some improvement.
I think it's def. something worth looking into-i hate the brake fade i get on my solids. I thought about some sort of venting infront of the wheel, but i don't want to start messing around with bodywork. I think the secret will be to keep the feed as short as possible so it's as direct as you can get it. Keep the fogs, just place the feed's somewhere else. If it's coming directly from the front of the car it won't make much difference anyway.
It's going to be one of those things you'll never know until you try. I'd give it a go-even if it's not a vast improvement, there will be some improvement.
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