1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:22 pm

Today, courtesy of Brinkie, the much coveted digital clock arrived :hopping:

Really completes the look of the interior (though the vent controls will be needing a new back light at some point)

Image


With this in addition to the washer nozzle from jifflemon, means that the car is essentially complete, just needs the biggest and most expensive job, the bodywork...
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:01 am

Image

I have decided to make some new plates for the Volvo as my current ones display the sub-par 2001+ font. I chose to go a little different by using the Serck font (or as close as I could get) which would be a nice touch. I assume this is perfectly legal and not classed as a showplate? I couldn't work out if there was any difference other than the obvious one, because I have tried to make these suitable for the time...

Apparently they are not 'officially' road legal but then technically so are all repro period plates?
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dcwalker
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by dcwalker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:05 am

Put simply, any number plate that does not follow the set font and spacing (and I'd need to check up what these are) is not road legal. So that mock-up certainly isn't - sorry.

Reasons are that the sight test criteria for driving is based on an ability to read a standard number plate, and police/Highways Agency cameras can only be certain of reading the standard size/font/spacing.

As always the rules are not retrospective. Your older style plate (even a newly made copy) is perfectly legal on the car as it is of the correct era - it's like the lovely old black and silver plates; I'd love to use them but on anything after around 1973 they are no longer road legal.

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:15 am

dcwalker wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:05 am
Put simply, any number plate that does not follow the set font and spacing (and I'd need to check up what these are) is not road legal. So that mock-up certainly isn't - sorry.

Reasons are that the sight test criteria for driving is based on an ability to read a standard number plate, and police/Highways Agency cameras can only be certain of reading the standard size/font/spacing.

As always the rules are not retrospective. Your older style plate (even a newly made copy) is perfectly legal on the car as it is of the correct era - it's like the lovely old black and silver plates; I'd love to use them but on anything after around 1973 they are no longer road legal.

David
I chose it because it was accurate for the year, they stopped around '90, but '88 I have seen period cars with them on:

https://www.alamy.com/1989-stretford-di ... ilters%3D0


Take a look at the red Sapphire Sierra to the right, that was my comparison, also an F-Reg,

I would imagine, especially how many clearly dodgy plates I have seen, it would be alright, there are certainly more illegal plates out there


The other day, I saw a c.2015 transporter with a vintage pre-1963 black riveted plate on it :eek:
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by dcwalker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:52 am

As you say, Ben, there are lots of illegal plates out there so it is a question of whether you want to chance it.

I have checked the authorities - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... inf104.pdf

It appears that, although prior to 2001 there were strict requirements as to spacing and size, there was no set font. As of 2001 there has also been a set font. So I take it back that the font on your proposal would be illegal...

That said, this guidance appears a little vague as to whether a plate being made today for a car registered between January 1973 and September 2001 must meet the current requirements or can be made so as to meet the requirements of the period. My view as a lawyer would be that, following basic principles, unless it is specifically stated somewhere (and someone may well be able to point us to where it is in this instance) laws are never retrospective. Therefore so if you have to replace the number plates on cars from 1973 to 2001 or, indeed, pre-1973, you are legally allowed to follow the rules of the relevant period.

So perhaps you would be ok after all...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am

Thanks David, I was unaware of your profession and I am very grateful of the advice. It would be similar to our 1943 Jeep not having seatbelts but being entirely legal, as it was never fitted with them. I certainly feel that Numberplates set off the look of a car, as such choosing a period correct style is vital, and I've put the original dealer details on it which while not entirely accurate design wise is at least right words wise


Thanks for your advice!
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by dcwalker » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:09 am

MisterH wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am
Thanks David, I was unaware of your profession and I am very grateful of the advice. It would be similar to our 1943 Jeep not having seatbelts but being entirely legal, as it was never fitted with them. I certainly feel that Numberplates set off the look of a car, as such choosing a period correct style is vital, and I've put the original dealer details on it which while not entirely accurate design wise is at least right words wise


Thanks for your advice!
Thanks Ben

I'm an employment lawyer, not any sort of expert in motoring law, so I am only applying basic legal principles here...in other words, please don't shout at me if I've got it wrong! It seems to me, though, that if you follow a period correct style, then there is no reason why anyone should stop you to check whether your number plate was made in 1989 or 2020 anyway.

Your point about the Jeep is interesting and well-made - it's like that cars prior to 1979 (I think it is) aren't required to have a rear fog-light: as a general rule UK laws are only ever retrospective in their effect if they expressly state that this is the case.

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:13 am

dcwalker wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:09 am
MisterH wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:58 am
Thanks David, I was unaware of your profession and I am very grateful of the advice. It would be similar to our 1943 Jeep not having seatbelts but being entirely legal, as it was never fitted with them. I certainly feel that Numberplates set off the look of a car, as such choosing a period correct style is vital, and I've put the original dealer details on it which while not entirely accurate design wise is at least right words wise


Thanks for your advice!
Thanks Ben

I'm an employment lawyer, not any sort of expert in motoring law, so I am only applying basic legal principles here...in other words, please don't shout at me if I've got it wrong! It seems to me, though, that if you follow a period correct style, then there is no reason why anyone should stop you to check whether your number plate was made in 1989 or 2020 anyway.

Your point about the Jeep is interesting and well-made - it's like that cars prior to 1979 (I think it is) aren't required to have a rear fog-light: as a general rule UK laws are only ever retrospective in their effect if they expressly state that this is the case.

David
Thanks David!


Who would have thought that laws were needlessly complicated and vague eh?
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by brinkie » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:53 pm

They made it even more complicated here in Netherlands, because cars which were registered after 31-12-1977 MUST have the 2001 (and current) style of plates (with blue Euro-band on the left, different font and with "controlled issue", if you lose a plate or they get stolen, you'll get a small serial number above the first dash). Between 1978 and 2001 the plates were yellow with black letters anyway, so there isn't much difference. Before 1978, blue or black plates with white letters were issued and pre-1978 cars are still allowed to use them, though there are people who put them on post-1978 cars, which is historically incorrect, fail MOT and is illegal (though you rarely get fined for it, unless you get caught for speeding).
As license plates are issued in order of issue, you will get a brand new combination on an imported car, as if you have bought a new car, unlike the UK where the license plate cannot be newer than the car. There are some combinations left for older cars, but only for pre-1973 and 1973-1978 cars which can have a period-correct license plate, but if you import for instance a 480, you will end up with new combination and new style plate no matter what.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:49 pm

brinkie wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:53 pm
They made it even more complicated here in Netherlands, because cars which were registered after 31-12-1977 MUST have the 2001 (and current) style of plates (with blue Euro-band on the left, different font and with "controlled issue", if you lose a plate or they get stolen, you'll get a small serial number above the first dash). Between 1978 and 2001 the plates were yellow with black letters anyway, so there isn't much difference. Before 1978, blue or black plates with white letters were issued and pre-1978 cars are still allowed to use them, though there are people who put them on post-1978 cars, which is historically incorrect, fail MOT and is illegal (though you rarely get fined for it, unless you get caught for speeding).
As license plates are issued in order of issue, you will get a brand new combination on an imported car, as if you have bought a new car, unlike the UK where the license plate cannot be newer than the car. There are some combinations left for older cars, but only for pre-1973 and 1973-1978 cars which can have a period-correct license plate, but if you import for instance a 480, you will end up with new combination and new style plate no matter what.
That's a real shame as a stickler for originality :( , I find plates to be vital. Take the pre-2009 french plates, I get really excited whenever I see a french car with a black numberplate still, as they often got phased out, but my french friend has explained a plate is now able to stay with the car now, which is good. Don't know what Germany is like, but I assume you can still find cars on their original plate
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:02 pm

Are you sure you want Serck? Wasn't it just a motor factor's font around the time for sticking on some trashy Fords, etc. This is just my opinion but I think it looks much worse that the old wide standard font your car would have come with new.

I don't think Serck was ever legal, just no one cared back then. The old wide font can always be explained away by stating that you bought the car with it.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:09 pm

Yeah I initially didn't like it, but after seeing it on some period Renault 21s, decided I'd give it a go, as it's something a little different, but looking at the pictures of the car when it came out of the barn, it doesn't seem to be that far of, it seems the figures F69 NLP seem to be the most 'neutral' characters. I probably could get away with the plates being the originals as I have put the original details of the dealer on it which I found from the logbook, so if I was pressed I could present the stamp from its first September 1988 service with the same telephone number on it
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:17 pm

Well as long as you are happy! :hopping:

P.S. Just looked back through the thread and your Info Centre switch is in remarkable condition!
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:22 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:17 pm
Well as long as you are happy! :hopping:

P.S. Just looked back through the thread and your Info Centre switch is in remarkable condition!
Why thank you! It has never given me trouble, and so long as I explain that it is an original feature, shouldn't be an issue on the driving test! I was explaining to Jeff the other day about how none of the interior lights work (except the seatbelt lights), I have a plan for cleaning up the heater controls...
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by jifflemon » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:49 am

MisterH wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:22 pm
I was explaining to Jeff the other day about how none of the interior lights work (except the seatbelt lights), I have a plan for cleaning up the heater controls...
Probably because the seat belt ones are LED's! :lol:

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by brinkie » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:56 am

MisterH wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:49 pm
That's a real shame as a stickler for originality :( , I find plates to be vital. Take the pre-2009 french plates, I get really excited whenever I see a french car with a black numberplate still, as they often got phased out, but my french friend has explained a plate is now able to stay with the car now, which is good. Don't know what Germany is like, but I assume you can still find cars on their original plate
Yeah, even with the special "oldtimer" plates you can tell it's not original. The system was thought out in the 1950s and is overly complicated, there are different series for mopeds, passenger cars, light commercial, heavy (>3500 kg), motorcycles and fast boats, but it depends on the year of issue how to tell them apart (in the 1950s-1960s series: impossible without a lookup table). There is no way you can select a plate, once issued for the vehicle it stays there, until the late 1980s you got a new combination if you lost the registration papers. Some combinations in the pre-1978 series weren't used, which now serve as "oldtimer" plates, but from 1978 onwards all combinations were used. My V70 has been registered in December 2010 and was imported from Sweden in March 2017, so it's on a 2017-ish plate. Which considerably lowers resale value, because with many import cars the odometer has been tampered with, though I have proof of mileage.
In Belgium the license plate stays with its owner, in Germany a new one is issued every time the car changes hands, so if you find an old style one, it says more about the owner than the car ;-) Germany does allow for vanity plates, so you can opt for "-V 480" or "-VO 480" ending plates if available.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:10 am

brinkie wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:56 am
MisterH wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:49 pm
That's a real shame as a stickler for originality :( , I find plates to be vital. Take the pre-2009 french plates, I get really excited whenever I see a french car with a black numberplate still, as they often got phased out, but my french friend has explained a plate is now able to stay with the car now, which is good. Don't know what Germany is like, but I assume you can still find cars on their original plate
Yeah, even with the special "oldtimer" plates you can tell it's not original. The system was thought out in the 1950s and is overly complicated, there are different series for mopeds, passenger cars, light commercial, heavy (>3500 kg), motorcycles and fast boats, but it depends on the year of issue how to tell them apart (in the 1950s-1960s series: impossible without a lookup table). There is no way you can select a plate, once issued for the vehicle it stays there, until the late 1980s you got a new combination if you lost the registration papers. Some combinations in the pre-1978 series weren't used, which now serve as "oldtimer" plates, but from 1978 onwards all combinations were used. My V70 has been registered in December 2010 and was imported from Sweden in March 2017, so it's on a 2017-ish plate. Which considerably lowers resale value, because with many import cars the odometer has been tampered with, though I have proof of mileage.
In Belgium the license plate stays with its owner, in Germany a new one is issued every time the car changes hands, so if you find an old style one, it says more about the owner than the car ;-) Germany does allow for vanity plates, so you can opt for "-V 480" or "-VO 480" ending plates if available.
Don't know if this is a dutch plate or not, but doubt you can trace it now: https://www.diariomotor.com/imagenes/20 ... _Turbo.jpg

Also, I doubt that many German cars have these style plates still: https://images0.autocasion.com/unsafe/6 ... 42257.jpeg


I do wish the euro nations would allow for posterity in their automotive heritage, which is one of the best things about being a car enthusiast in the UK I believe
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by brinkie » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:16 pm

MisterH wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:10 am
Don't know if this is a dutch plate or not, but doubt you can trace it now: https://www.diariomotor.com/imagenes/20 ... _Turbo.jpg
It's Swedish, and you can trace it. Although its tracks went cold in 2011...
https://www.car.info/en-se/license-plate/S/BXO997
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:50 pm

Ooh, that's very interesting...
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns: One year on

Post by MisterH » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Well I have sort of gone to brown alert, more like silver alert.

This evening I decided I would try to protect the rust spots on the car by covering them with paint. They aren't rusty but are exposed metal so with the year coming to an end I decided to Winterise the car as I did not know when it would be getting bodyshop time. I masked fairly well, but not amazingly, as a result the car looks both smarter and scruffyer than it was before, quite an achievement. The only automotive paint I had was some chrome silver, and in my imagination I want to think it almost looks like this:
Image

...but I can't lie to myself :badmood:

I went through all the trouble of masking the coachline on the rubbing strip personally, only to then spray too close to the bit of the bumper I hadn't masked and which led to predictable results:
Image


Other than that it is mixed, but not neat :crazy:
Image

Image

Image


Oh and the Blaupunkt radio that David kindly donated is temporarily living in the quattro as the Toronto unit in that car is out for the first service it has ever had I think...


How easy would it be for a professional to get rid of the silver overspray on the bumper, I imaging it's not a disaster, just really annoying


Update: Rubbing petrol on it worked, although the paint on the body is a bit [more] scruffy now but I'm taking it
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