1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:57 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:15 pm
For wet footwell I'd check that the drain pipes in the front scuttle are clean. Also, I think a car leaking from the boot area (much more likely) that is parked in an nose-up direction can end ‎end up with wet front footwell.

Regarding the code, you might be lucky and have the code on a credit card sized card in the handbook pack. If it is the original radio your Volvo dealer should be able to tell you the code based on the VIN number. Take some ID and the V5 and hope that the parts guys take pity on you. I got my key code this way.‎
yes, there is a credit card type thing with the code on it, however the numbers are not the same as the ones on the keypad
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:59 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:20 pm
From https://www.ivgsoft.com/radiocode.php?id=2231
Switch Radio On - Display Shows "-C-"
Press preset " 1 " and the display will show " - "

Press tuning up button "^" for correct digit
Press preset " 1 " to enter
Press tuning up button "^" for correct digit
Press preset " 1 " to enter
Press tuning up button "^" for correct digit
Press preset " 1 " to enter
Press tuning up button "^" for correct digit
If the correct code number is now shown press preset " 1 " to enter 
The display does not show anything, no C, just a blank, but lit, screen
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jamescarruthers
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:07 pm

You don't type the number in, you use the tuning 'UP' button to enter the first digit (e.g. Press up, up, up for "3")

If it doesn't display -C- you might be out of luck and it is broken. I would try the first step though and press "1"‎ and see if you can then enter numbers with the 'up' key.

1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:01 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:07 pm
You don't type the number in, you use the tuning 'UP' button to enter the first digit (e.g. Press up, up, up for "3")

If it doesn't display -C- you might be out of luck and it is broken. I would try the first step though and press "1"‎ and see if you can then enter numbers with the 'up' key.

Here is a better pic of what I am seeing:
Image

the radio seems to be picking up the static from the aerial when moving the sound knob, and when I press the tuning button the subtle background static seems to change
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:06 pm

with that display I'd suggest 'fubbered', but happy to be proven wrong by those with more knowledge of electronics :-)

might be a similar issue to the way that the info centre works (or not) when the bulb has blown?? if you are lucky?
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:14 pm

The middle bulb is blown on the display and you need a backlight to see an LCD display. Have you looked really really closely to see if it isn’t displaying -C- in the middle?

The static noise isn’t that important, you are just amplifying a noisy signal from the car and changing the volume knob is just wiping a dirty old variable resistor which will cause noise too.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:22 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:14 pm
The middle bulb is blown on the display and you need a backlight to see an LCD display. Have you looked really really closely to see if it isn’t displaying -C- in the middle?

The static noise isn’t that important, you are just amplifying a noisy signal from the car and changing the volume knob is just wiping a dirty old variable resistor which will cause noise too.
OK, I will try that tomorrow, many thanks!
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:30 pm

I’m grasping at straws really but good luck! The info centre does the same when the bulb blows and you can only see its display if you look really closely.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by dcwalker » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:27 am

Looking at your last picture of the radio, I support the straw-clutching that has already taken place but must admit that my gut instinct says "fubarbed" :(. No great logic at all to this suggestion, but have you tried taking it out, unplugging it, then plugging it back in again? Might just be a dodgy/dirty connection within the multiplug connector(s)...

Footwells - wet rear footwells, especially with a wet rear seat as well, is almost always water coming in via the boot somewhere. It runs forward into the wells under and then in front of the seat, and also soaks up into the foam of the seat base.

As you will know the number of potential culprits for a leaking boot is considerable so you just have to methodically work around. I am waiting to see if my latest repair on my GT has worked - the rubber around the connector between back of roof and rear window was disintegrating so water was getting into it, running inside the rear window frame and emptying into the boot. Lots of rain in the last few days and so far so good...

Front footwells can be down to the water running on forwards in the car. But if I understand your problem correctly there is no wet rear footwell behind the wet front one? In that case, check the quarterlight on the door. These have a habit of leaking and for some reason, when they do, the water gets down behind the trim panel (and so into the car) rather than into the door (and so away through the drain holes at the bottom.

Good luck on all fronts!!

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 480 Celebration 467/480 (plus 2004 C70 Collection, 2014 V60 SE Lux Nav)
Previous: Celebration 346 (sold to Alan480), Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73, 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by brinkie » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:54 am

MisterH wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:03 pm
also, I need to find one of these for the pop-ups, I am tired of fixing them all the time, only for the passenger side to flip down again...
Image
It is a simple DIY job to fix the relay, probably cheaper than finding another: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35386&p=217038#p217038

By the way, if a headlight pops up when it should close or closes when it should pop up (and stays there), you have fixed the popup motor arm in the opposite position.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i Vase Green, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum Mystic Silver
Past: 1981 Talbot-Matra Murena 2.2 Rouge Mephisto, 1995 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i Paris Blue

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by brinkie » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:58 am

MisterH wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:01 pm
the radio seems to be picking up the static from the aerial when moving the sound knob, and when I press the tuning button the subtle background static seems to change
I think you are looking at a dead radio...
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i Vase Green, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum Mystic Silver
Past: 1981 Talbot-Matra Murena 2.2 Rouge Mephisto, 1995 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i Paris Blue

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:54 am

brinkie wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:54 am
MisterH wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:03 pm
also, I need to find one of these for the pop-ups, I am tired of fixing them all the time, only for the passenger side to flip down again...
Image
It is a simple DIY job to fix the relay, probably cheaper than finding another: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35386&p=217038#p217038
I missed that post but really useful, even with having to buy a pair of relays to liberate the internals!!!
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:55 pm

dcwalker wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:27 am
Looking at your last picture of the radio, I support the straw-clutching that has already taken place but must admit that my gut instinct says "fubarbed" :(. No great logic at all to this suggestion, but have you tried taking it out, unplugging it, then plugging it back in again? Might just be a dodgy/dirty connection within the multiplug connector(s)...

Footwells - wet rear footwells, especially with a wet rear seat as well, is almost always water coming in via the boot somewhere. It runs forward into the wells under and then in front of the seat, and also soaks up into the foam of the seat base.

As you will know the number of potential culprits for a leaking boot is considerable so you just have to methodically work around. I am waiting to see if my latest repair on my GT has worked - the rubber around the connector between back of roof and rear window was disintegrating so water was getting into it, running inside the rear window frame and emptying into the boot. Lots of rain in the last few days and so far so good...

Front footwells can be down to the water running on forwards in the car. But if I understand your problem correctly there is no wet rear footwell behind the wet front one? In that case, check the quarterlight on the door. These have a habit of leaking and for some reason, when they do, the water gets down behind the trim panel (and so into the car) rather than into the door (and so away through the drain holes at the bottom.

Good luck on all fronts!!

David
Thank you David, I will bring out the electrical tape and give the quarterlights some reinforcements

If I am not careful, it might look like something out of the 70's with all those thin black lines...
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Jaster
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by Jaster » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:13 pm

brinkie wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:54 am
MisterH wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:03 pm
also, I need to find one of these for the pop-ups, I am tired of fixing them all the time, only for the passenger side to flip down again...
By the way, if a headlight pops up when it should close or closes when it should pop up (and stays there), you have fixed the popup motor arm in the opposite position.
...and another thing to consider: if the passenger light is coming up and then going down again (in other words the motor is doing a full 360 degree rotation), then it's possible that the position switches inside the motor have given up, in which case the relay isn't the problem (I have recent personal experience with this, will update my own thread in due course).
Current: '94 GT & '88 ES
Former: '89 ES

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MisterH
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:19 pm

Jaster wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:13 pm
brinkie wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:54 am
MisterH wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:03 pm
also, I need to find one of these for the pop-ups, I am tired of fixing them all the time, only for the passenger side to flip down again...
By the way, if a headlight pops up when it should close or closes when it should pop up (and stays there), you have fixed the popup motor arm in the opposite position.
...and another thing to consider: if the passenger light is coming up and then going down again (in other words the motor is doing a full 360 degree rotation), then it's possible that the position switches inside the motor have given up, in which case the relay isn't the problem (I have recent personal experience with this, will update my own thread in due course).
The passenger one does not come up at all, however when I manually raise it, and turn the engine on, it will lower itself and not come up again. If I raise it manually and then turn the knob so the other one comes up, then it will stay up until the knob is turned to the down position, at which point it will go down with the other light, but will not come up again. it does not do a 360 on its own, it just stays static
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by Jaster » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:42 pm

That description also sounds like symptoms of a position switch not working (the switch at the bottom of the rotation being jammed, thus interrupting the power lines), and would go some way to explaining why it will go down and not up. Regardless of the direction, the relay is simply closing and opening so if it works in one direction it should work in the other too. If you haven't already, try taking the cover off the relay and manually closing the contacts to see if the motor spins continuously. If it does then I'd lean toward the position switch being at fault.
Current: '94 GT & '88 ES
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by brinkie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:22 pm

Jaster wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:13 pm
...and another thing to consider: if the passenger light is coming up and then going down again (in other words the motor is doing a full 360 degree rotation), then it's possible that the position switches inside the motor have given up, in which case the relay isn't the problem (I have recent personal experience with this, will update my own thread in due course).
No. Unless the rotating plate inside the motor has shorted across the contact breaker, it is highly unlikely that a motor will continue to run because of that. (There are a couple of diodes that can short, however)

The motor works quite simple. There is +12V to the motor which is switched by the popup motor relay. If there is +12V on this terminal and ground is connected, the motor will spin. Then there are three terminals which do a kind of sensing which position the motor has: up, down, or somewhere inbetween. All three are connected to a contact, which pushed on a rotating conducting plate inside the motor. See the inside of the motors on this picture:
Image

One contact, in the middle, is always touching the metal plate. One is touching the plate where the conductor is interrupted when the motor is in the up position, the other is interrupted where the motor is in the down position.

If the light is supposed to go up, the relay is switching the motor on, and the sensing inputs are used where the contact breaks when the motor is in the up position. The relay falls off and the motor stops. Conversely, the sensing inputs where the contact breaks when the motor is in the down position.

This is where is goes wrong. The conductor gets dirty, or the contacts itself break off, causing unwanted contact breaking, and the motor stops prematurely.

But, to keep the motor spinning, you have to prevent the relay from falling off. This can be done (yes, I have experimented with that :lol: ) by making a poor earth from the relay, or by making the relay contacts stick. That way they won't fall off fast enough, the motor keeps on spinning and the contacts inside the motor will meet the conductor again. Happily they will spin another cycle, and another, and another... By changing the motor you may push things back into the limits and the motor will function again, but the cause has not been cured.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i Vase Green, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum Mystic Silver
Past: 1981 Talbot-Matra Murena 2.2 Rouge Mephisto, 1995 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i Paris Blue

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Jaster
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by Jaster » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:38 pm

Thanks for posting that picture - I was basing my understanding of how the motor works internally on ancient text-only posts dug up by the forum search, so that makes things much clearer! When I was referring to 'switches' I meant the interrupting mechanism that gives top and bottom position. Someone said that they had a non-functional motor in which the plate was corroded (or dirty, I forget) so the ground wasn't connecting and thus no movement. I suppose referring to that system as 'switches' was a bit misleading on my part!
I also found a write-up, I think it might have been on a Ferrari forum (the 456 uses the same motors, don't go looking for spares from them as they come with Ferrari price tags!) which mentioned a similar problem caused by the ground cable (I think ours is brown, the Ferrari version uses different colours) becoming damaged inside the potting compound or whatever the motor is covered in, so different cause but same effect.

Obviously it didn't occur to me to save the links to either of those posts, but if I can find them again I'll link them here for posterity.

One other interesting thing I found while plugging part numbers into Google was this rear wiper motor, apparently used on the 740, 760 940, 960 and V90:

Image

Look familiar? Mechanically it looks identical and presumably it works on the same principle internally since the wiper goes back and forth in the same way, but the pinout is somewhat different so some R&D might be required, equally might turn out to be a dead end. Also no manual winding knob so less ideal for pop-ups, but might be a source of parts to rebuild our motors in the future purely based on the assumption that there will be more of these around in the wild (at least in the UK).
Last edited by Jaster on Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current: '94 GT & '88 ES
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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by jifflemon » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:14 pm

Most interesting find....

Am I right in thinking that typically it’s the plastic ring gear and/or contacts that fail? The actual motor bits last forever?

I looked at MR2 pop ups; Typically Japanese they use the same motor in pretty much anything that had pop ups and they rarely fail. Sadly, they’re a tad larger and the mounting pcd is wider. It’s not an impossible mission (probably fab up new support panels) but not a cheap solution either.

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Re: 1988 Volvo 480 ES - A New Era Dawns

Post by MisterH » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:06 pm

Fitted the new headrests today, shout out to rockstars Jaster and James for kindly giving them to me, once I was advised that I was looking for circlips to remove the old ones, I was well on my way. Unfortunately, one clip was lost to the carpet monster as it pinged into oblivion, never to be seen again, but the other clip for the drivers side is in, so I assume that is alright?

Either way, I am glad they look good and add some safety to the car

Image
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