1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:10 pm

1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:11 pm

Image
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:11 pm

Image
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

cranna21
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:44 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Huntly

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by cranna21 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:22 am

Great Find!

Curious - what kind of sunroof does this have fitted? is it a manual tilt? i have a red 480 with one of those fitted also!

Fraser
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 212bhp/230nm
'90 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'08 XC90 D5 SE Premium

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:57 am

will you folks please hide those lovely shiney bright red cars, puts mine to shame, I've added color restorer/polish so often that there are white patches on the bonnet where paint missing :-(
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:46 am

i wheeched it out the top, left gearbox behind as all bolts are 'just' reachable and saves pulling driveshafts etc

section of 2" angle iron held up the box, clutch bolts can all be undone and then push box to N/S and push engine to O/S all ticht, but took the steady bar off the inner wing to give extra room (actually stripped front of engine, but put it back in complete)

clutch was possible to re-align fairly easily as well :-)
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

cranna21
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:44 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Huntly

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by cranna21 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:34 pm

I've only ever come in and out the top but next time i plan to just drop the subframe as a complete unit with engine and box!

plenty room to do it that way if you have the height
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 212bhp/230nm
'90 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'08 XC90 D5 SE Premium

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:19 pm

While the engine is out I would like to get the subframe and wishbones sent away for powder coating and also change the wi‎shbone bushes. 

It would also be a good time to replace the clutch and probably get the block painted as they always have surface corrosion on them and look crap. Oh, and send the starter away for refurbishment as it sounds a bit odd sometimes and ‎maybe really push the company that make new coolant hoses to actually help me.

Thanks for the advice on  top and bottom extraction and will ‎work out which way is best for me as time goes on. I like the sound of lifting the body off the subframe and struts but don't know if I'll have the height. Can the car just be pivoted up on its rear wheels or does it actually need lifted? I guess one of us will be the first to find out!

A bit of core plug‎ research and it seems that it would be wise to measure up and replace them with brass items rather than the, likely, zinc coated steel ones that were installed from new. 


Funny thing is that I have just sold my other 480 and the C6 goes tomorrow so this was supposed to be the new everyday car! I'll be getting my bike out for a bit or maybe go and get my camper out of storage. 

However, I am due a bit of 480 catastrophe as in 15 years of 480 ownership and 8 cars I have only been stranded twice and those were both automatic box related troubles (cable end snapped on one and internal death of another‎). They have been remarkably reliable up until this one's coolant system!
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:48 pm

James

if putting in new wishbone bushes, don't until you have had the wishbones galvanized, never mind pussy footing about with plastic coatings :lol: , go for the real deal, the rear trailing arms are galv and they are only starting to surface corrosion on mine now now after 25years and most of that in ABZ :wink:

Engine out UPWARDS

if you have the lifting capacity leave gearbox on, remove exhaust manifold at the block as those bolts WILL come out,nae sure about the six/eight off 11?mm AF nuts around the fancy spring loaded joint . . ..

keeps oil in gearbox and the clutch comes out with engine etc.

whilst engine is out DROP subframe leaving the struts in place, (split ball joints at wish bones) unless the struts also need painted?

you only need to have the car up on axle stands about ten or twelve inches high under the main cross member/chassis rail at the front doors, (I cheated and just used two trolley jacks, one at each side :wink: )

I reckon you need a LARGE amount of room AND height to take out the 'whole thing' (struts/engine/box etc) which is what Fraser is planning, but have you seen the space that he's got???

once subframe is out then you can debate doing the struts, they are a ruddy pest cos you need LOTS of height to get them to clear and the height below the car bodywork.

and the struts do seem to 'expand' when the load is off them :wink:

I'll measure up the height of my lifting beam above the floor if it gives you a clue on clearance required (but my spreader beam meant the lifting point was effectively ON the air inlet box and my hoist is horizontal with a pulley on the RSJ (height from floor to bottom of RSJ is 2100, pulley is 125mm, and eye on wire rope is 150mm from bottom to ferrule, shackle went direct to spreader beam so you need around two metres MINIMUM and a VERY short chain-pull tackle to clear the front valance if going upwards. I pulled engine up, pushed car back and dropped engine into the pit. Problem came when trying to get engine from edge of garage floor out into space as my garage is 'split level' with a pair of horizontal ramps out over the lower section/pit.

resorted to just taking engine to edge of 'high level' and hoisting it until it swung out (and down) 'freely' and then took it vertically back up!!!

pushed car back under beam (not quite what Volvo had in mind, but needs must etc)


PS not a task I would relish doing unless I had to, but which core plugs?

You can get at some core plugs with the engine in the car.
I have a DELRIN blank on top of a (what was a) weeping core plug in back of SS1 block with RTV and a section of bar across from the dizzy bolt as otherwise it meant pulling the engine to replace, I know seems a bit 'bodge-it-n-run, but lasted a good few years :-)
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

cranna21
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:44 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Huntly

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by cranna21 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:28 am

On the subject of front wishbones, things i have learned:

- Don't just replace the bushes, replace the arms! I replaced the bushes in my arms and then proceeded to crack a wishbone which went unnoticed for quite some time! (POLARPARTS.DE is a good site for well-made replacements and a good price.)
- Galvanising the wishbones may cause heat distortion - the heat involved with galv baths is mental and we have structural stuff come back from galv quite often twisted or distorted.
- The same website - POLARPARTS certainly used to sell subframe bushes, the fronts and rears are supposedly different and you can no longer get one of them (think the rears, however, cannot remember) but the fronts fit and work in the rear holes no problem.
- I found while fitting my new subframe bushes that the bolts used to hold the subframe on through the bushes were M12 while the holes for them were circa 14mm - I had stainless steel 'tophat' collars made to act as a sleeve to keep everything tight and in line while at the same time the did the job of replacing the standard large OD washer, if you're interested I can have some more made up, i think I was circa £80 for the set but I just didn't like the movement the 12mm bolt in a 14mm hole could allow!

Fraser
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 212bhp/230nm
'90 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'08 XC90 D5 SE Premium

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:46 am

cranna21 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:28 am
On the subject of front wishbones, things i have learned:

- Don't just replace the bushes, replace the arms! I replaced the bushes in my arms and then proceeded to crack a wishbone which went unnoticed for quite some time! (POLARPARTS.DE is a good site for well-made replacements and a good price.)
- Galvanising the wishbones may cause heat distortion - the heat involved with galv baths is mental and we have structural stuff come back from galv quite often twisted or distorted.
- The same website - POLARPARTS certainly used to sell subframe bushes, the fronts and rears are supposedly different and you can no longer get one of them (think the rears, however, cannot remember) but the fronts fit and work in the rear holes no problem.
- I found while fitting my new subframe bushes that the bolts used to hold the subframe on through the bushes were M12 while the holes for them were circa 14mm - I had stainless steel 'tophat' collars made to act as a sleeve to keep everything tight and in line while at the same time the did the job of replacing the standard large OD washer, if you're interested I can have some more made up, i think I was circa £80 for the set but I just didn't like the movement the 12mm bolt in a 14mm hole could allow!

Fraser
not sure if that much distortion on the galv front :-) the rears trailing are already done. for info the SS1 chassis was originally 'only coated' to 'avoid distortion' , but oddly the later ones were all galvanised, :wink: maybe different folks do to different temperature?

there 'should' be a yellow plastic spacer, to centralise the bolts at the rear, dunno if two or just one?

probably different length bushes front/rear to cope with the torque/twist of the engine?
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

cranna21
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:44 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Huntly

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by cranna21 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:41 am

Alan,

i think there are various different processes of galvanising available, but we've had 6" I beams come back from galvanisers either bowed or sometimes twisted with the head of the process!

unsure on the yellow spacers, can't say I've ever come across these!
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 212bhp/230nm
'90 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'08 XC90 D5 SE Premium

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by Alan 480 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:49 am

cranna21 wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:41 am
Alan,

i think there are various different processes of galvanising available, but we've had 6" I beams come back from galvanisers either bowed or sometimes twisted with the heat of the process!

unsure on the yellow spacers, can't say I've ever come across these!
yes I've heard of things warping/twisting etc but the different box sections might behave differently? especially if something has been welded? then the heat 'relaxes' the whole thing, I am just 'guessing' :-)

ref 'yellow fittings' There was one on the N/S when I went to re-fit the subframe, was unsure if there should have been one on O/S as well :-( , I'd have thought there should been two to keep subframe lined up, front is rattle fit bolts so no advantage?

they (it) was hard plastic with a tapered section to make centralising easier , and I guess that is why the subframe had to be prised off with a tyre lever? :-)

I'm not sure if a twist in a wish bone would do any real harm? there are bushes inboard to take up some mis-alignment and a ball joint out board, so kinda like a three legged stool it will always line up, but might be (more of) a swine to get the bolts fitted at inner end?

only a thought . . .. .
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

cranna21
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 313
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:44 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire, Huntly

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by cranna21 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:54 am

Could easy be Alan!

i can't disagree with what you've said there! they're are tight to remove!

sounds like the yellow fittings did/do the job of my over engineered alternative! haha
'91 480 ES 2.0l 16v 'Williams' Conversion - 212bhp/230nm
'90 940 GL 2.0l Estate
'08 XC90 D5 SE Premium

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Engine out. Core plugs arrived (would you believe the was a Volvo new old stock set on eBay). Debating extra work while the engine‎ isout hopefully only once.

Subframe off tomorrow‎.

Thanks for your help and advice regarding getting the engine out and subframe work.‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:09 pm

1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:09 pm

1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:10 pm

Image
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by Alan 480 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:10 pm

LOADS of room in that garage!!! mine is full of ****, well other cars.

I see you had to resort to removing timing belt etc to give a wee bit of wiggle? (EDIT looking at the thread regarding oil pressure switches, maybe cos core plug hidden behind belt? scary when they pop, but usually they weep then let go . . . .)

the subframe will wiggle out but ONLY after you remove the cat (or in your case front section),

leave the calipers behind, saves bleeding brakes? fold the struts out to the side , take care not to scratch the paint when doing so!!

although that subframe is in pretty good nick cf the one I cut up.

anti roll bar bushes would be worth investigating when you can actually see them!!!
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: 1987 480 ES Project -- D-reg, 2nd oldest in UK

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:11 pm

I wish that was my garage! It belongs to my mate who is a car mechanic but works from home‎. Mine is very tight in comparison.

‎I'm taking the opportunity to do a front suspension overhaul while everything is out so your ARB bush, strut and calliper advice well received.

You are right, the timing belt and pulleys are off because the blown core plug was behind all of this. ‎I'm going to replace the lot as the few that we initially bashed to remove were punctured pretty easily and were very corroded on the inside. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Will continue tomorrow. I'm confessing now that although I am present, the real 480 master is my mate in the village who is a proper car mechanic!‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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