The Wolf roams

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WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:14 pm

My new multimetre arrived today... It has longer probes..
I took the ez210k ecu off and tested the sensors again..
The coolant sensor had increased its resistance. Its colder today so I can tick that off the list..

I had a very weird reading on pin 7 to earth which is the throttle valve switch.. It should of read 1300ohms.. It was correct the other day. Today it was 15000ohms.. I left the plug off of the posistion sensor all last night.. I only assume some damp has made its way in..

Then I went to the maf....

Suprising results...

I tested pins 6-2 (This is what Robou advises in his manual. Some mafs are wired different.. The value was 528ohms. Just how I left it...
I did that also to make sure my multimetre was set correctly.
I then tested pins 1-3 which should display 2700ohms..

My reading was 3ohms, if this a correct way of finding out if its broke its a cool 2697ohms off...

Would it be possible for someone to verify the reading on their maf between pins 1-3....

This possibly could be the cause..

Fingers crossed...

Thanks once again Eye of Ra for your input


To be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:23 pm

WhiteWolf wrote:It was that hot it made the plastic lid on it just prise off. It had melted the adhesive..
I would be fairly sure thats not supposed to happen. :shock:

For info that might help.

I know little about the mod but assume that the modified ECU is the ignition ECU (unless it’s both ECUs).

The MAF is controlled and gives readings to the non ignition ECU and should only clean when the following happens.

If while running the engine has gone over 2000rpm and the coolant has gone above 60 degrees then 4 seconds after the engine is turned off it will be cleaned and reach 1050 degrees for 1 second.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:37 pm

Thats what I thought. The metal casing was hot hot hot with engine running..

The ecu mod is only done on the EZ210k. The one behind the centre console.. Its a really good mod for the turbo.. It keeps all of the built in safety features.. It totally transforms the car..

I may have muddled the reading off the maf...

When it says 2.7 ohms is that .3 under 3 ohms or does 2.7 ohms mean 2700... Normally it would have a k as in 2.7k ohms...
If it is .3 under 3 then the reading of the maf between pins 1-3 is correct..

Thanks for the info regarding the maf as well.. They are clever little things..

To be continued..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:26 pm

It is 2.7 Ohms (.3 less than 3) not 2.7k Ohms.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:03 pm

eye of ra wrote:It is 2.7 Ohms (.3 less than 3) not 2.7k Ohms.
Thanks for the correction...

Well it seems the readings are ok for the maf...
I dont think that proves it working though... Im sure Ive read or heard that you need an oscillope to monitor the wave of it.. Its well above my head that is...

I will recheck the throttle posistion sensor later...

Thanks once again...

To be continued........
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:55 pm

WhiteWolf wrote: I dont think that proves it working though...
Probably not if one of the other terminals is telling the MAF to constantly clean itself. :shock:

I hate to mention this as the Volvo Green Data Book has proved to have errors and I have so far been unable to find the data on Vadis but it says that the resistance of the throttle position sensor when disconnected from the ECU across 4 and 6 should be 0 (released) and infinite (pressed) i.e. a switch, if you are getting 1300 – 1500 something is (possibly) wrong.

Haynes got their info from somewhere and with the ECU connected there may be 1300 Ohms resistance to earth through it. But you are getting the same reading with the ECU connected or not.

Not sure if this is going to help or hinder.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:24 pm

Thanks for the help. I appreciate it..

I wish I knew what the maf was doing :shock:

I retested the throttle posistion sensor between 4-6 the values were as you stated.. 0 ohms pedal off and it went off the scale with pedal on.. So thats is correct....

I also retested the coolant temp sensor.. I tested both elements.. One read 3200ohm the other read 3350ohms.. Surely these should be the same reading...
I will put the old one back in tommorow and test those values..

I also tested the Idle valve resistance between the two outer pins..

Mine read 39.9ohms

Haynes states it should be 20ohms for the B18ft engine..

For the B18e engine it should be 44ohms...

I dont know wether mine is broken or the previous owner replaced it with one off of a different engine. There is no partnumber on it..
To be honest I know they get stuck etc.. Dont know about the resistance value being a problem...

Thanks once again

To be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:07 pm

Ive always knew about the diagnostic unit on the near side turret.. Sadly mine is there but only has pin 5 connected which I believe is to test the cem...
On my es I have one and about 4 are wired up...

Ive looked at the wiring diagrams and can see various test points.. One for the lamba sensor, abs, idle valve which I believe is the bypass plugs which ground the idle control valve.. Theres one for ez210k ecu as well.. I know this is unlikely but does anyone know where you would wire the various points of the diagnostic unit 2...

Would it be as simple as connect a wire from the test point on the ez210k to the relevant point on the diagnostic unit for ignition testing and so on....

Or did volvo have a machine to plug into the various test points..


Or was it all flashing leds that flashed codes?

I will do some more reading...

To be continued..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:07 pm

Today I checked the resistance of the coil..

Between the two low tension terminals of the coil the resistance should be between .4-.7 ohms, mine was .2ohms.. That was with the wires connected though.. I will undo the wires and check again...

Then I tested the high tension terminal resistance to the low terminals.. They both measured correctly at 7200ohms..

I tested the resistance of my spare engine temp sensor and both elements gave different readings. Is it vital that both readings are the same..

I do only have number 5 present in the diagnostics unit..

All the work and heartache with this car is slowly loosing its shine..

To be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:18 pm

Cleaned the maf today.. Took the screens off.. one side of the hot wire is shiny the other side looks reddish.. Did the wire and did the screens. I must admit the wire did look slack..

I also took the dumpvalve off. It is a bosche uprated one.. I sprayed it with electrical contact spray.. Quite a bit of gunk came out... I put my finger in and kept moving the spring inside.. You could hear the whooshing out of the vacuum port on top.. I did that about 20/30 times it feels nice and tight..


It looks like I either have to throw a load of parts at it in the vain hope of it fixing an issue or just watch it rust away in the garden where my es is....

Not good times...

I wish I had the full diagnostic box instead of port 5 for the cem....

I can see various test points but I think these are what Volvo used for diagnostics..

To be continued....
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2017
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:18 pm

What happens when you ask the diagnostic box to look at the engine?
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2003 Renault Avantime 3.0 V6 (Big Ren)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:29 am

Below is a test I found it is not specifically for the 480 so amend instructions as required but if the wire arrowed is glowing constantly instead of just at engine switch off you have found why its so hot and the course of your problems.
Testing the MAF – Part 2, The Burn-Off Signal

In order to test the burn-off signal, it is necessary to do some partial disassembly. The MAF is a fragile device so do be careful whilst performing this to ensure that it is not contaminated or jolted unnecessarily.

Firstly remove the hose connecting the MAF to the turbo inlet. Just remove the hose at the MAF.
Then disconnect the MAF wiring connector.

Next, with a 5mm allen key, remove the two bolts securing the MAF to the airbox. Both of these should remove easily enough, but if your luck is anything like mine then you will have to remove the top of the airbox in order to place a spanner on the retaining bolt(s) to prevent them from moving as the MAF bolts are unscrewed. All very tedious but such is life.

With the MAF now temporarily removed from the airbox, and located where you can see in, it is necessary to reconnect the wiring harness and the hose to the turbo.

Start the engine and let it warm up comfortably past 60 degrees C.

Then hold the throttle open gently at about 2500 RPM for a period of about three-five seconds.

On turning off the engine, the ECU should engage the one second burn-off signal. This signal should occur within 30 seconds of stopping the engine and will result in a visible heating of the element within the MAF. The photo above, shows it just occurring. Tremendous.
Image
Last edited by eye of ra on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:23 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:What happens when you ask the diagnostic box to look at the engine?
Thanks for the reply....
Sadly I only have port number 5 on the diagnostic box.. I think that just tests the cem module...
I wish I knew how to wire the other ports up.. I dont know why it isnt all wired up...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:57 pm

eye of ra wrote:Below is a test I found it is not specifically for the 480 so amend instructions as required but if the wire arrowed is glowing constantly instead of just at engine switch off you have found why its so hot and the course of your problems.
Testing the MAF – Part 2, The Burn-Off Signal

In order to test the burn-off signal, it is necessary to do some partial disassembly. The MAF is a fragile device so do be careful whilst performing this to ensure that it is not contaminated or jolted unnecessarily.

Firstly remove the hose connecting the MAF to the turbo inlet. Just remove the hose at the MAF.
Then disconnect the MAF wiring connector.

Next, with a 5mm allen key, remove the two bolts securing the MAF to the airbox. Both of these should remove easily enough, but if your luck is anything like mine then you will have to remove the top of the airbox in order to place a spanner on the retaining bolt(s) to prevent them from moving as the MAF bolts are unscrewed. All very tedious but such is life.

With the MAF now temporarily removed from the airbox, and located where you can see in, it is necessary to reconnect the wiring harness and the hose to the turbo.

Start the engine and let it warm up comfortably past 60 degrees C.

Then hold the throttle open gently at about 2500 RPM for a period of about three-five seconds.

On turning off the engine, the ECU should engage the one second burn-off signal. This signal should occur within 30 seconds of stopping the engine and will result in a visible heating of the element within the MAF. The photo above, shows it just occurring. Tremendous.
Image

Thanks for the reply and great information...

I will attempt it tommorow... I have a feeling its already burnt itself out.. When I first inspected it one side of the wire was shiny and the other side was all I could describe as rusty.. If the wire had burnt out it would t be there or all of the wire would be the same colour, not just one side..

Something made the maf get hot. Like I said the adhesive on the plastic case softened so the lid just came off.. I understand the burn off cycle but what tells it to stop burning..

I will also see if the signal wire on the maf goes up and down in voltage... Surely my multtimetre should pick uo the voltage change...

Thanks once again for the help..
Gave me some more homework...

To be continued...

Ive cleaned nearly every connector in the engine bay..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:34 am

Finally found a pin diagram for the MAF. Pin 4 is the burn off control pin. Or 8 on the non ignition ECU.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:02 pm

eye of ra wrote:Finally found a pin diagram for the MAF. Pin 4 is the burn off control pin. Or 8 on the non ignition ECU.
Thanks for the reply....Ive had a few days off it. I was loosing the will...

I will try it again in a few days time...

Ive been studying wiring diagrams... Im going to try and connect an led to the various test points around the car and see if it flashes...

To be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:30 pm

You should now be able to see the picture I thought you could see before. :bla:
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:38 pm

eye of ra wrote:You should now be able to see the picture I thought you could see before. :bla:

I can see it quite clearly now thank you......

I think I do need a new Maf.....


Gonna throw some petrol in her tommorow and fire her up. Ive cleaned everything. Nearly...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:04 pm

Well...
I put petrol in her and tried to start it. It started but wouldnt run..

Unplugged the engine temp sensor and tried again. It started.. reved ok as well...

Unplugged the maf, still ran but wouldnt rev.. plugged it back in it revs.. revs good as well. Nice and strong to the redline..

Tried to drive it.. its not jerky but it still struggles.. Its running way to rich..
I have to have the idle bypass screw nearly all the way out...


Going around in circles....
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:09 pm

The engine sounds like its hunting...

Idles stable then rise up to about 1300rpm then back down.. seemed better when warmed up...

Tested the engine temp sensor and the resistance was at 282ohms.. The engine was between 90/100c

Its like the symptoms you get when you have an airleak..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

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