The Wolf roams

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WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:44 am

I've a weird problem with the ignition relay that is situated under the dash. It recently decided to die on me and I had to bridge the plug between two connections with a piece of wire. I left it over night with the wire attached and the battery died. No worries, it had kept the ignition switch open.
The problem is I've tried to replace the relay with 3 different relays and none of them make the car work. The only way I can start the car is to leave the wire in place between the two connections.
This is a pain as it resets the ecu everytime I disconnect the battery. It takes a while for the ecu to learn the right settings. I dont know how long the ecu takes to learn again. It is modified by boardmember Robou.
I will try to swap some more around tommorow.

to be continued....
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
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Re: The Wolf roams

Post by jifflemon » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:59 am

So, by using the wire, you're closing the relay - That's why the battery is draining.

If you've already replaced the relay, it's suggesting that its missing the other parts of circuit - either the trigger or the earth.

Will have a look later when I'm home at the wiring diagrams to see if I can give you better pointers on where to start troubleshooting.

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:48 pm

jifflemon wrote:So, by using the wire, you're closing the relay - That's why the battery is draining.

If you've already replaced the relay, it's suggesting that its missing the other parts of circuit - either the trigger or the earth..
sounds like lack of 12V from ign switch??
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2 (1 x Normal, 1 x 'Celebration' ? ), C30 1.8ES, SS1

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:51 am

Thanks for the replies guys..

Ive looked at the wiring diagram and all I can see is the wire going from the ignition to the relay..
Obviously everything is fine from the relay onwards..
I must have two broken relays. Thats the only explanation. The key works as it cranks the starter motor..

I must check its the live part of the relay I have bridged..

to be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Ade
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 pm
Location: Northants

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by Ade » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:17 am

Have you replaced the relay exactly like for like? When my fuel pump relay went some time ago I was very dismayed to find that some of the relays in our 480's have a different terminal layout to almost every other standard relay currently available, although physically they are the same and will plug in, the trigger and main current switching terminals are not the same and thus won't work. I had to make up some little jumpers with male and female spades to allow me to put the correct terminals of a 'normal' relay into the right terminals on the socket. All relays have a little diagram of the circuit inside embossed on the side or top with the identifying terminal numbers, make sure the layout is the same on your replacement, if, as is likely, it is not, then you can do what I described.
O.C. 480 D.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:28 pm

Thanks for the reply....

It did occur to me about the different layout. I can remember seeing one which had only one circuit. The rest I have seem to have an extra circuit inside.. Like you suggest Its more than likely the wrong one..
Unfortunatley I cant find one with just the one circuit. I will have to look on the other car I have..
Nice one..
To be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:41 pm

The car has been feeling sluggish recently..
I dont drive it hard normally. I usually shift at about 2000rpm, maybe 1500rpm. The car responds easily at low revs. I live in town so its not really good to open it up..
It also has a modified ecu by boardmember Robou. Power besides it really improves driveabilty. Its a lot more responsive even at half throttle..

Anyway. I took it to a place where I could open her up and was dissapointed to say the least. It felt like it wasnt wanting to boost..
My revs were at 750 at idle and I remembered they should be at 800rpm. So after it warmed up I fully closed the idle screw and the turned it clockwise 6 times. So it was turned fully 3 times.. The revs stayed at 900rpm. I took it back out and it felt a lot better. The idle screw was set and 3 turns so it was doubled from before..
Ive had it like it for a few days now and it feels like it used to.. You can hear the roar again..
to be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Ade
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 pm
Location: Northants

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by Ade » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:48 pm

Image

Here's a diagram of a standard 4 pin relay. Notice that pins 85 and 86 (the parallel opposites) are the trigger, the low current to activate the solenoid which closes the high current switch, pins 30 and 87.

On the fuel and ignition relays and some others on our volvos, the pins, although the same physical layout, are connected differently. Image now that pins 86 and 87 are the trigger or the switch (can't remember but easy to check) and that 30 and 85 are the other, or is it 86-30 and 87-85? anyway, the point is the terminals are connected diagonally for trigger and switch not opposites. find out which is which is which and connect any relay you like with jumpers into the socket and it will work.
O.C. 480 D.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:53 pm

Thanks for the detailed explanation Ade.. To be honest Ive just left it as it is. I will more than likely just put a switch on the wire I have placed on the really..

Ive been having fun these last few days. Ive always had erratic boost. Often it used to overboost off of the gauge and hit fuel cut. Sometimes it wouldnt boost at all..
To be brutally honest Im sick of not having a stable boost level which I can rely on. Its not fun having to kill the ignition then turn it back on whilst still rolling.
Anyway Ive decided to remove the wastegate pipe off of the turbo actuator and just use my foot to control the boost. I tell you now the car is spot on. It picks up everytime. Its a lot faster than with it connected. Im not talking about because it overboosts, with the accelerator I can keep the gauge just before the red. I cant understand why its shit with the boost solenoid controlling the wastegate.
I have no leaks and the turbo is working fine. Its certainly not running lean..

Some work is being done to the front suspension next week..
Wishbone rubbers and ball joints..
Wheel bearings..
Track rod ends..
Anti-roll bars..

I need to source a gearbox mount as well, the gearstick wobbles like a jelly...

to be continued.....
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

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glasgowjim
480 Is my middle name
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Re: The Wolf roams

Post by glasgowjim » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:25 pm

Be aware that the rear engine mount for a 91 model is diferrent from the later models . The change over year was mid 92. From memory the older version is discontinued and the newer mount wont fit . the metal brackets are different as well not a straingtforward job to swop over metal mount frame and rubber mount new type for old.

As an aside the older type mounts are stronger than the newer versions.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:57 pm

Thanks for the info Glasgowjim...
My car was registered in jan 1992. Its a J reg. I thought mine was the facelift version. I believe I have the 24 fuse fusebox which is the older version if Im correct. I also have the black inlet manifold..
I hope so because the wheel bearings I bought are upto 1991.. I will find out when the wheel bearings are being replaced..
to be continued..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Robou
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 269
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Re: The Wolf roams

Post by Robou » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:16 pm

I'm sorry to hear about your problems. As far as the ECU is concerned don't worry about it being reset, the default settings are perfect for a good ride, the learning is only useful in extraordinary circomstances, like turbo spikes or bad petrol. As a matter of fact I reset my ECU on regular basis.

But the story about overboost worries me. Aparently the ECU is aware of the manifold pressure seen the fuel cut. When it doesn't control it something is wrong with the boost control valve, the wastgate membrane or a transistor inside the ECU which sends signal to the valve. It can die when the wiring or the coil inside the valve is shorted.
Thoroughly checking the valve and/or the transistor isn't easy, a oscilloscope is needed. But checking the resistance between the connectors of the valve is, it should be about 30 Ohms. Checking the membrane is a matter of pressure.

You are fiddling with what you call idle screw. If you mean the CO-pot you definetly are on the wrong way. It has nothing to do with the idle speed, this is set in the Jetronic ECU. It adjusts the mixture at idle and low load/low revs driving. In fact it is a variable resistor, the initial setting is measured between pins 6 and 2 of the connector and should be standard about 320 Ohms and with my mod 520 Ohms. Adjust from there with half turns either way for a smooth ride at a little above 1000 revs in 5th gear.
Too old to bother
480 Turbo midst '91

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:20 pm

Thanks for the reply Robou...

The ecu works fine. The fuel cut works when it hits the limit..
Its either overboost or no boost.. It must be the solonoid..
A few days before I disconnected the wastegate the boost was holding lovely inbetween the red on the gauge, right in the middle.. Then sometimes its halfway in the yellow.. This is in 3rd gear as well.. The car can accelerate smoothly in 5th gear from about 1200rpm. I will double check the resistance of the maf as well when I have access to a multimetre..
I will.check the valve resistance in the next few days as well. Last time I checked about 6 months ago it was 28ohms..

When Ive sorted the handling this week I will take a proper look at the power of the car..

Woulnt a weak wastegate creep boost anyway. It seems with it disconnected the boost level is a lot higher.. Even though the boost pressure is the same on the gauge..
Its a weird one..

Thanks for your help...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by eye of ra » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:05 am

WhiteWolf wrote:Thanks for the info Glasgowjim...
My car was registered in jan 1992. Its a J reg. I thought mine was the facelift version. I believe I have the 24 fuse fusebox which is the older version if Im correct. I also have the black inlet manifold..
I hope so because the wheel bearings I bought are upto 1991.. I will find out when the wheel bearings are being replaced..
to be continued..
Vadis says old type mount up to 521499 and new type from 521500.

It also says the bearing never changed its the nut that comes in the kit that changed.

EDIT. According to Club Europe’s chassis list this would make the change sometime in 1988 so may be wrong.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

Ade
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 pm
Location: Northants

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by Ade » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:51 am

Robou's not gonna like this..... But....

Three magic words- manual boost controller!

I made the most basic one you've ever seen but by god is it effective :D 7mm ID silicone tube (kindly donated by the boost control system on the 9-3), M8 bolt, bit of filing.... I'll leave the rest to your imagination! Very finely adjustable, the helix bleeds off a little air pressure, the less of it in the tube, the easier it bleeds. Works well on my turbo, just takes a bit of messing about to get it set right, I'm boosting right to the red with no issues at all.
O.C. 480 D.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:30 pm

Thanks for that Eye of ra...
Bearing wise I have the one with the nut which I got off of ebay... So thats good thanks..
I will check the chassis number. Thanks once again...

to be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Thanks for the reply Ade..
I have a manual boost controller but do not want to fit it at the moment...

When I first fitted the ecu it was crazy.. It spins 1st and 2nd in the dry and if theres a slight camber on the road or the slighest bit of moisture its hard to get traction. This is at wide open throttle and is easily tamed with throttle correction..

I love the ecu and the power it produces.. If you have turbo and you havnt got one I woulf reccomend obtaining one..

Its more than likely a troublesome sensor somewhere..

Most of time when I slam my foot down it will for a second go off the gauge and then sit nack just below or in the red..

I have no air leaks and the idle sits beautifully at 900rpm..

When I unplug the boost solenoid the boost gauge stays roughly in the middle
.

I will get there..
Thanks once again...

to be continued...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:20 pm

I cant edit my posts on my phone..
I meant its hard to get traction in third if there a slight bit of moisture..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat May 06, 2017 12:23 pm

Its still running...

I finally managed to strip the front end yesterday..
Well my mate did.
We did the wheel bearings, wishbone bushes and ball joint and also replaced the track rod ends...

Wishbone bushes were easy with the press.. Wheel bearings were easy to get off with the press.. The fun started trying to get it back on.. The first one was easy.. The second one we did fell apart when we were pressing it in. There is also some serious wobble on the passenger side hub.. Its a solid piece of metal so we assume its warped a little.. So I have to order a hub and another bearing because this one will be ruined soon..
The inner boot cover passenger side has split.. Ive only just replaced it as well.. It must of been the excessive movement of everything that has torn it...
The brake pads need replacing.. The passenger side is like a rizla paper.. They are being done before its drove again..

The good bits.....
Well the car accelerates now with ease.. There is no friction in the bearings. The steering feels heavy again, before it was like a canal boat.. Turn and hope.. The track rod ends have tightened it up no end..
Also the rocking of the car to and throw and to be perfectly honest side to side and even diagonally at times.. Coming off and on the accelerator doesnt produce jerks no more.. Also the gearstick has stipped moving so bad...

Now the bad bits

I floored it in second and jesus christ the car was swerving left and right to get traction... Tracking and tyres need to be done I hope that solves the problem.. It was ripping the steering out my hand. I used to be able to hold it with one hand and floor it.. Now its both hands and hold tight..The car doeant pull up and to the right anymore when I accelerate.. Bonus. I was sick of looking at the sky when I floored it.
When I go over minor bumps the car feels like it skips to the side or the wheel buckles.. Thats more than likely the hub that needs replacing..

It feels a lot lot lot better.


As a side note my boost levels seem to be normal. It just sits in the middle of the red now.. I also checked the resistance of the maf and it was 430.. I adjusted it as robou advises to 520/530 and the pickup it better. I need to fine tune with half turns so I get the desired either way..

Once all the suspension and brakes are done its time to get a complete engine gasket set and rebuild the engine.. Theres a few bits of oil coming from somewhere.. Once they are done I can focus on the power.

I will get there

to be continued......
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: The Wolf roams

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:37 am

The car starts and runs, just...

Brakes and tyres have been done. Side exit exhaust fixed, it use to rattle amd come off the rubber attachment..


Anyway.. The car had been running beautifully. I mean perfect. Even with new tyres on it was difficult to get tractiom in second in the dry
:-D

Then it happened.. I pulled off fast in first and dropped it into second expecting spinning of the wheels and it just started misfiring

I managed to pull over and just thought a pipe had come off the inlet.
I could see nothing..
I managed to limp home...
The week before it had been getting harder to start.. A good few seconds to start..
The next morning I tried to start it and it would fire up but not keep running. Even trying to press the accelerator wouldnt help..
I had to hold the throttle just a bit to keep it running.. It stumped me.. I tried unplugging the idle air valve, maf nothing helped.. The only way I could get her running was to fully unscrew the idle bypass screw..
The car is undrivable with the maf plugged in.. It will sort of drive but as soon as revs above 2000rpm it will start stuttering.. I can just up.the gear to combat this..
Revs have been going up and down as well.
I pulled a spark plug lead whilst the car was running and heard fast clicking coming from the distributor.. My friend says this is normal..

Most of the time it will rev whilst in neutral.. really struggles when under load
.
I have noticed tonight when I shone a torch at the crank sensor it looks rusty and dirty on the outside.. I had a water leak the otherr day, the pipe that goes into the side of the head.. I hope that is the problem..

Im stumped with this..

Its had new plugs, fuel filter etc

I will take the cranksensor off tommorow and give it a clean..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

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