Troubled start on a Volvo 340 with B18FT (M) engine

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levi
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Troubled start on a Volvo 340 with B18FT (M) engine

Post by levi » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:19 pm

A friend of mine made this mod to his 340.... the problem is that the car won't start.

Everything is plugged correctly (apparently), maf is tuned to the correct values.

This is what happens: starter motor runs perfectly, engine rotates but never starts It does this every time... the accelerator doesn't make any difference if you press it. It's like if there was no angular position sensor connected (but it is)...


Any ideas? We are going crazy with this :angry:
Last edited by levi on Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by martinholmesuk » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:22 am

correct ecu for crank sensor?

Fuel?

Spark?
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Post by levi » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:55 am

martinholmesuk wrote:correct ecu for crank sensor?

Fuel?

Spark?

"correct ecu for crank sensor?"

please explain :)

the car has fuel and there's spark on the spark plugs
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Post by martinholmesuk » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:59 pm

i think depending on the flywheel teeth amount that you have diff ecu's for it.

Your using a 340 bellhousing with 480 flyhwheel ?
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Post by levi » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:27 pm

martinholmesuk wrote:i think depending on the flywheel teeth amount that you have diff ecu's for it.

Your using a 340 bellhousing with 480 flyhwheel ?
Every electrical part is from a 440 Turbo B18 FTM engine. The flywheel is from the B18FTM as well as the sensor.

Few adapts were made:
- rev counter wire
- connection of the ignition between the ECU and the car
- extended cables for injectors (the original were too short)
- external fuel pump from a Renault 21 with multipoint injection 3.0 bar max pressure

Any ideas? :cryhard:
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Post by martinholmesuk » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:54 pm

unplug the maf and try
unplug the engine temp sensor and try
the injectors spraying?
check the loom
power to the ecu?
car is grounded?
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Post by chris1roll » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:12 pm

levi wrote: Few adapts were made:
- rev counter wire
What did you do with this?
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Post by levi » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:04 pm

martinholmesuk wrote:unplug the maf and try
unplug the engine temp sensor and try
the injectors spraying?
check the loom
power to the ecu?
car is grounded?
We've been doing some tests and here's what happens:

- with maf disconnected and temp sensor connected, the engine never starts

- with maf connected and temp sensor disconnected, the engine starts, goes up to 3.000rpm but goes off immediately

- with both maf and temp sensor disconnected, the engine starts with idle at 3.000rpm and slowly accelerates alone. If i press the accelerator it revs more (as it should) and after i release it, the idle is still above 3.000rpm and slowly growing :dunno:

Ideas? :)
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Post by martinholmesuk » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:37 pm

maf fucked
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Post by levi » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:13 am

martinholmesuk wrote:maf fucked
do you think so? The value between 1-6 is 383 ohms, which is the standard value. I'm confused now :|
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Post by martinholmesuk » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:47 am

i had a dead maf where it would start, idle high for a sec then engine dies

lol

but look at other stuff first cos a maf aint cheap
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Post by bbf » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:04 am

false settings of CO pot on maf can also make the engine stall. 383 is near basic, for your engine might be way different.
fuel pump should be 3,5 bar constant pressure with original 400 injector.
i'd check for airleaks, first; how did you route crankcase ventilation?
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Post by levi » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:39 am

bbf wrote:false settings of CO pot on maf can also make the engine stall. 383 is near basic, for your engine might be way different.
fuel pump should be 3,5 bar constant pressure with original 400 injector.
i'd check for airleaks, first; how did you route crankcase ventilation?
the normal value is between 38x and 5xx ohms. I will try to increase it to see if it makes a difference....

i think that the fuel pump is ok. Without the maf and temp sensor connected, the engine works, with a very high idle though :(

What do you mean by "how did you route crankcase ventilation?" ?
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Post by 480_rocket » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:31 am

Just because the MAF reads x ohms between pins 1-6 on the MAF sensor, doesn't mean its working! The more important part in the MAF is the air flow signal (check the wiring diagrams for the correct pin). This signal should increase from 0v upto 5v in relation to the airflow.
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Post by bbf » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:32 pm

fuel pump MUST be able tu push 3.5 bar through the rail - presure regulator is set to 3.5 bar. and it must take no more than 30 sec to fill an 1 litre bottle through the return hose (that is throuh 3.5bar regulator, also!!). injector opening timing is based through this spec, if it can't meat it, it's more like luck that the engine works, regardless what disconecting other stuff does.

about ventilation, originaly crankcase ventilation is routed between intake manifold and section inbetwen turbo and maf, all through special 3 way valve. I don't know how its in 340 engine, but on 18ft it does have influence on false air when this valve fails.

the maf can be bad in 2 ways: either it gives false reading (but the engine still runs, but with strange settings of CO pot - usualy at 0 ohm or full 1Kohm) or the wire is cracked. check the resistance between pins 3 and 2 on MAF, it should be arround 2,7ohm. check voltage between 2 and 3, it should change betwen 1,4V at idle and 5 volt at full rpm (i have 2 different MAF, giving around 2,5 V at full rpm but both drive ok but with minor problems; anyway both are drivable and idling fine).

does the throthe position sensor clicks, when you open it slightly? it should!
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Post by levi » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:18 pm

bbf wrote:fuel pump MUST be able tu push 3.5 bar through the rail - presure regulator is set to 3.5 bar. and it must take no more than 30 sec to fill an 1 litre bottle through the return hose (that is throuh 3.5bar regulator, also!!). injector opening timing is based through this spec, if it can't meat it, it's more like luck that the engine works, regardless what disconecting other stuff does.

about ventilation, originaly crankcase ventilation is routed between intake manifold and section inbetwen turbo and maf, all through special 3 way valve. I don't know how its in 340 engine, but on 18ft it does have influence on false air when this valve fails.

the maf can be bad in 2 ways: either it gives false reading (but the engine still runs, but with strange settings of CO pot - usualy at 0 ohm or full 1Kohm) or the wire is cracked. check the resistance between pins 3 and 2 on MAF, it should be arround 2,7ohm. check voltage between 2 and 3, it should change betwen 1,4V at idle and 5 volt at full rpm (i have 2 different MAF, giving around 2,5 V at full rpm but both drive ok but with minor problems; anyway both are drivable and idling fine).

does the throthe position sensor clicks, when you open it slightly? it should!
About the fuel pump, i want to leave it for last because i know there's other small issues that might be causing this problem. Since the fuel pump is used on a Renault 21 Turbo, for now i will trust that works fine on the B18FT :)

About the ventilation, everything that existed in the 440 Turbo is on the 340.

About the maf, i'm going to check what you said.

Meanwhile another thing came up.... i was reading the Haynes manual and during the steps of diagnosing the ignition system with a multimeter (EZ210K ECU), the book said that between pin 2 and earth the value should be 0.1 ohms. more than that means there's a earth problem... well, we measured 5.400 ohms (yes 5 thousand).

The throttle position sensor is ok, as well as the flywheel sensor :)
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Post by levi » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:17 pm

I've checked the maf and everything is normal between pins 1-6, 1-5 and 2-3

But now i have another question: in a 4xx Turbo if you unplug the coolant temperature sensor, what happens to the idle rpms?
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Post by levi » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:42 am

everything electrical is checked and everything is at 100%.

There's only 2 details to sort out: one is the fuel pump and the other is the inexistence of the fuel pressure regulator (freakin mechanics.... in the end i always have to get my hands dirty :angry: )
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Post by bbf » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:55 am

There's only 2 details to sort out: one is the fuel pump and the other is the inexistence of the fuel pressure regulator
hm...
didn't think of that...
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Post by JohnTurbo » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:06 am

FPR should be at the end of the fuel rail, under the inlet manifold. A little brass coloured cylinder. It looks like a small version of the wastegate actuator.

Is that not there?
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