Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Here you can talk about the joy owning a Volvo 480 brings. Non-technical discussions take place here, like what is the difference between an ES and a S version.

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Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by Alan 480 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:08 pm

I'm with James

try getting the engine to turn by hand is a decent thought, then 'hot wire' the starter to see if it will spin over?
then see about bypassing the ignition and see if it will run, fuel will be 'well past' it's BBE :hopping: so I doubt if it will run, you can't even just pour neat fuel down the carb....

it 'might' fire with a splash of fuel in inlet tract, never tried on a fuel injection but done a few times on Ford CVH / Reliant :D

worst case you have a whole car load of spares :-)
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:19 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:22 pm
Are you going to turn it over by hand first? I would, after maybe a bit of light oil in the spark plug holes over night. Next day rock backwards and forwards, then turn over with big socket on bottom of engine, accessed with driver's wheel off, or jack up one wheel with car in gear and rotate that way instead.

Fuel will be useless. Proper way would be to drain tank and refil. Mine was very low so I just filled it up and crossed my fingers.

Check the air filter hasn't went nasty in your outside storage, just incase you suck in lots of bits. Briefly, no filter will be fine.

Same with oil, I just topped up the old but changed it pretty quickly once it ran and got some heat in the system to make it thin to drain nicely.

If the belt doesn't look bad I'd probably risk running it under its own steam briefly, but not all would agree with such a risk.

Just top coolant up with water. If it leaks out, don't worry too much, just only run it for a minute max.

I think you should attempt to get the engine going to give yourself a bit of cheer should it actually start for you but without chucking any/much at the engine before you know it wil start for you

I know you said the key is stuck, but will it turn the ignition on? I am having trouble remembering but I think you can take the switch off the back of the barrel and just use a screwdriver on it. Memory is blurred on this detail because I was using a screwdriver but with a spare switch as I had no keys. It might not be possible to get the switch off as easy as I say!
A very helpful list indeed!! Agreed - I don't want to waste too much on it if its totally knackered. Will a 1/2" socket wrench be enough to turn the engine or is a breaker bar essential? If so I'll have to wait until Monday to replace my broken one.

Also, might sound like a stupid question but I've just checked out the battery terminals and there's 3 connections... one +, one - and third which has P N on it? Is this third one needed for anything? Its connected to the + terminal. There was no battery installed when I got the car and have never seen this before!
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

alfie12
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:24 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:22 pm
I know you said the key is stuck, but will it turn the ignition on? I am having trouble remembering but I think you can take the switch off the back of the barrel and just use a screwdriver on it. Memory is blurred on this detail because I was using a screwdriver but with a spare switch as I had no keys. It might not be possible to get the switch off as easy as I say!
I got the barrel out and just managed to get the key unstuck! And turns fine in the ignition again so this hopefully wont be an issue!
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

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dcwalker
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by dcwalker » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:08 pm

alfie12 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:19 pm
jamescarruthers wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:22 pm
Are you going to turn it over by hand first? I would, after maybe a bit of light oil in the spark plug holes over night. Next day rock backwards and forwards, then turn over with big socket on bottom of engine, accessed with driver's wheel off, or jack up one wheel with car in gear and rotate that way instead.

Fuel will be useless. Proper way would be to drain tank and refil. Mine was very low so I just filled it up and crossed my fingers.

Check the air filter hasn't went nasty in your outside storage, just incase you suck in lots of bits. Briefly, no filter will be fine.

Same with oil, I just topped up the old but changed it pretty quickly once it ran and got some heat in the system to make it thin to drain nicely.

If the belt doesn't look bad I'd probably risk running it under its own steam briefly, but not all would agree with such a risk.

Just top coolant up with water. If it leaks out, don't worry too much, just only run it for a minute max.

I think you should attempt to get the engine going to give yourself a bit of cheer should it actually start for you but without chucking any/much at the engine before you know it wil start for you

I know you said the key is stuck, but will it turn the ignition on? I am having trouble remembering but I think you can take the switch off the back of the barrel and just use a screwdriver on it. Memory is blurred on this detail because I was using a screwdriver but with a spare switch as I had no keys. It might not be possible to get the switch off as easy as I say!
A very helpful list indeed!! Agreed - I don't want to waste too much on it if its totally knackered. Will a 1/2" socket wrench be enough to turn the engine or is a breaker bar essential? If so I'll have to wait until Monday to replace my broken one.

Also, might sound like a stupid question but I've just checked out the battery terminals and there's 3 connections... one +, one - and third which has P N on it? Is this third one needed for anything? Its connected to the + terminal. There was no battery installed when I got the car and have never seen this before!
Is this the thick red wire that runs down gk the starter motor?

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

jifflemon
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by jifflemon » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:15 pm

alfie12 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:19 pm
A very helpful list indeed!! Agreed - I don't want to waste too much on it if its totally knackered. Will a 1/2" socket wrench be enough to turn the engine or is a breaker bar essential? If so I'll have to wait until Monday to replace my broken one.
Without scanning through the whole thread, I'll add this:

1) REMOVE THE PLUGS. This is for 2 reasons, the first is that it will make turning the engine over a whole lot easier, so that yes, You'd be able to use an 1/2 ratchet (or a the "wheel in gear" method). More importantly, it allows you to do

2) Squirt a healthy dose of penetrating fluid/oil down each bore. Whatever you've got - WD40/PlusGas/3in1 or engine oil. Get some in there, then let it sit for 5 mins or so before starting trying to crank.

3) Fuel will be dead. If there's anything more than 1/4 I'd look at draining/pumping it out.

4) You want a good battery. Not something who's condition is unknown, not a jump pack. the bigger the better. Official battery is an 027, and an 075 is the "upgrade" version of that. You can (as you don't have AC) get an 096 in there (which is total overkill!).

alfie12
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:32 pm

[/quote]

Is this the thick red wire that runs down gk the starter motor?

David
[/quote]

Here's a picture of the terminals... seems to just be connected to the positive? Can't see the need for it!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Let me know if you can't see the picture (not up to speed on how people get pictures straight to the thread on here!)
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

alfie12
480 Newbie
Posts: 42
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:39 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:15 pm
alfie12 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:19 pm
A very helpful list indeed!! Agreed - I don't want to waste too much on it if its totally knackered. Will a 1/2" socket wrench be enough to turn the engine or is a breaker bar essential? If so I'll have to wait until Monday to replace my broken one.
Without scanning through the whole thread, I'll add this:

1) REMOVE THE PLUGS. This is for 2 reasons, the first is that it will make turning the engine over a whole lot easier, so that yes, You'd be able to use an 1/2 ratchet (or a the "wheel in gear" method). More importantly, it allows you to do

2) Squirt a healthy dose of penetrating fluid/oil down each bore. Whatever you've got - WD40/PlusGas/3in1 or engine oil. Get some in there, then let it sit for 5 mins or so before starting trying to crank.

3) Fuel will be dead. If there's anything more than 1/4 I'd look at draining/pumping it out.

4) You want a good battery. Not something who's condition is unknown, not a jump pack. the bigger the better. Official battery is an 027, and an 075 is the "upgrade" version of that. You can (as you don't have AC) get an 096 in there (which is total overkill!).
Thanks a lot! The nuts on the sparks look very rusted... any tips on getting these out easily without damaging anything? Will penetrating fluid and patience do the trick?
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by Alan 480 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:20 pm

leave lots of any thin rust remover WD40 etc in for a long time. and note order of plug leads :-)

note that the plugs are not always easy to get a hex spark plug socket onto, make sure it is on sqaure and use a tommy bar with even turning at left hand and right hand, not a breaker bar as then the socket will tilt.....
Last edited by Alan 480 on Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by jamescarruthers » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:20 pm

Wow, I have no idea what that extra battery termnal is for!

The fat one, which will be bolted to the inside of the wing area next to battery before going down to engine and gearbox is the standard negative terminal.

The one with red wires is your standard positive terminal.

Where does the extra wire that goes to the bolt head on the positive termial go to? That isn't standard, but it must be replacing a circuit for some reason. The extra positive battery terminal I agree is weird and likely unnecessary
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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dcwalker
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by dcwalker » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:43 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:20 pm
Wow, I have no idea what that extra battery termnal is for!

The fat one, which will be bolted to the inside of the wing area next to battery before going down to engine and gearbox is the standard negative terminal.

The one with red wires is your standard positive terminal.

Where does the extra wire that goes to the bolt head on the positive termial go to? That isn't standard, but it must be replacing a circuit for some reason. The extra positive battery terminal I agree is weird and likely unnecessary
I can't really add anything to what James has said on this - there do appear to be too many cables...mind you, unless they changed for later cars and my memory is playing tricks, that isn't an original Volvo terminal, so whoever altered it must have had something specific in mind...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by Alan 480 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:48 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:20 pm
Wow, I have no idea what that extra battery termnal is for!

The fat one, which will be bolted to the inside of the wing area next to battery before going down to engine and gearbox is the standard negative terminal.

The one with red wires is your standard positive terminal.

Where does the extra wire that goes to the bolt head on the positive termial go to? That isn't standard, but it must be replacing a circuit for some reason. The extra positive battery terminal I agree is weird and likely unnecessary
you sure it's not a second EARTH? it is naked and maybe to chassis, can't tell from the angle of photo, it might have been a jury rig (if to the positive) so that they could get a pair of batteries on to try and start it?

getting images straight on then you need to use the wee icon between th * and chain, then open the photo on your google photos, right click and 'get image address, then paste it into the gap, doesn't always work.... seems to depend of you are logged in or not, Jifflemon is the man for guidance :-)

you should see { img ] html address [ /img ]
Image
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by jifflemon » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:59 pm

or just PM me for an email address and I'll either walk you through it or host them for you

alfie12
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:53 pm

More discoveries in the 480 horror picture show...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

My awareness of the rust to the body grows bigger each day! A quick poke of the roof rust and my thumb went straight through :shock: Although it seems to be rusting in a very neat line... is this a body join? Or do I have two halves of a 480 stuck together :roll: I can deal with some rusty arches but this is going to let even more water in without a permeant fix. Is this rust likely to be structural? My wallet is cowering in fear.
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by dragonflyjewels » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:00 pm

The seams in the roof are about 10-15 cms in from the edges and run from front to back. Your line of rust looks to be further towards the middle?
This really is starting to look like a nice pile of spares....
Sylvia

Snazzy - 1993 Paris Blue ES red dipstick 2.0i bought 2001
Lethal Lily - 1991 White Turbo
Paris the Unicorn - 1991 Paris Edition
hubby has
Sven - 1994 Racing Green GT
Evil Eva - 1992 Paris Blue Turbo

no previous 480s - can't bear to sell any

alfie12
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:13 pm

dragonflyjewels wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:00 pm
The seams in the roof are about 10-15 cms in from the edges and run from front to back. Your line of rust looks to be further towards the middle?
This really is starting to look like a nice pile of spares....
The rust is roughly in line with plastic side window trim (which is also rusted through) and certainly crunchy :wall:

Breaking for spares is indeed looking likely. Although without getting the car running I have little clue about what works! I'd love to get myself another (and much better nick) 480 and use this to salvage my own spares... but storage of 2 cars is going to be tricky (will require renting a garage) which may cost more than the spares are worth. I may have to offer spares up to the forum vultures if there's significant interest :lol:
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:48 pm

alfie12 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:13 pm
Breaking for spares is indeed looking likely. Although without getting the car running I have little clue about what works! I'd love to get myself another (and much better nick) 480 and use this to salvage my own spares... but storage of 2 cars is going to be tricky (will require renting a garage) which may cost more than the spares are worth. I may have to offer spares up to the forum vultures if there's significant interest :lol:
sadly that is sometime the only option, I'm much against breaking a 'salvagable / runner' but it will never make snse to do up a real 'can of worms' (nor even a half decent one.)

I have no issue with this car if it is as flakey as you have found 'topside' which is usually 'OK' , i'd suspect underneath is as frilly? or real horrors, hand through sills/outriggers/subframe / suspension mounts/ seatbelt areas etc

MoT is a 300mm from ANY structural area. so unless you are dab hand with the electric metal-glue gun . . . . . :cryhard:
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

jifflemon
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Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by jifflemon » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:54 pm

alfie12 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:13 pm
The rust is roughly in line with plastic side window trim (which is also rusted through) and certainly crunchy :wall:

Breaking for spares is indeed looking likely. Although without getting the car running I have little clue about what works! I'd love to get myself another (and much better nick) 480 and use this to salvage my own spares... but storage of 2 cars is going to be tricky (will require renting a garage) which may cost more than the spares are worth. I may have to offer spares up to the forum vultures if there's significant interest :lol:
Where about in real world are you located?

alfie12
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Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:13 am
Location: Manchester

Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:05 pm

Alan 480 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:48 pm
alfie12 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:13 pm
Breaking for spares is indeed looking likely. Although without getting the car running I have little clue about what works! I'd love to get myself another (and much better nick) 480 and use this to salvage my own spares... but storage of 2 cars is going to be tricky (will require renting a garage) which may cost more than the spares are worth. I may have to offer spares up to the forum vultures if there's significant interest :lol:
sadly that is sometime the only option, I'm much against breaking a 'salvagable / runner' but it will never make snse to do up a real 'can of worms' (nor even a half decent one.)

I have no issue with this car if it is as flakey as you have found 'topside' which is usually 'OK' , i'd suspect underneath is as frilly? or real horrors, hand through sills/outriggers/subframe / suspension mounts/ seatbelt areas etc

MoT is a 300mm from ANY structural area. so unless you are dab hand with the electric metal-glue gun . . . . . :cryhard:
I'm going to have a photoshoot this weekend to give you all a full show of what I'm dealing with. To my surprise the outer sills are fine, jacked the rear up to swap a wheel out and felt strong! The only car I've ever had to not 'crunch' when being lifted - I had a horror with my first car and jacking on rusty sills... ended up with a broken hand, 12 stitches and a tetanus shot 3 days before my driving test! :eek:

Subframe looks alright, but the screwdriver test will soon reveal all. Yet to inspect the rest. Floor pan is better than expected given the amount of water which came out of the footwells. I'm not sure the smell inside will every fully go away...
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

alfie12
480 Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:13 am
Location: Manchester

Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by alfie12 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:05 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:54 pm
alfie12 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:13 pm
The rust is roughly in line with plastic side window trim (which is also rusted through) and certainly crunchy :wall:

Breaking for spares is indeed looking likely. Although without getting the car running I have little clue about what works! I'd love to get myself another (and much better nick) 480 and use this to salvage my own spares... but storage of 2 cars is going to be tricky (will require renting a garage) which may cost more than the spares are worth. I may have to offer spares up to the forum vultures if there's significant interest :lol:
Where about in real world are you located?
The sunny delights of South Manchester!
Alfie

I've got 9,999 problems, and no. 480 is my car :nuts:
1989 1.7 ES 110k miles - first time restoration attempt!

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2464
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 am

Re: Scrap or restore? Honest opinions needed!

Post by jifflemon » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:10 am

Hmmm Bit too far for assistance then :(

The way the arch has gone along the window line makes me wonder if it had had a replacement at some point?

and the hole in the roof? Aerial maybe?

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