Engine Electrics

Here you can talk about the joy owning a Volvo 480 brings. Non-technical discussions take place here, like what is the difference between an ES and a S version.

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jamescarruthers » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:29 pm

Can you still read the Bosch part number on yours? If so, use this and ask a Bosch Dealer. My local is MPD, you may ‎have your own closer. 
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jifflemon » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:00 am


Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by Alan 480 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:41 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:00 am
Any good?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bobine-d-all ... SwIJFZ4k2I
that price is taking the mick!!!!!

the coil is (looks) a standard 'electronic ignition' type coil, as previously suggested it cannot be 'too fancy' I'm sure I might even have a 'new' coil in storage , for use with 'ballasted ignition' but it was designed for a system where the feed to coil was direct from 12V during starting and then during normal running it added in a shunt resistor. in effect the idea was that during engine cranking the battery voltage would drop to around 10V and so the starte rmotor had an auxiliary switch that bypassed the 'ballast resistor' usually about 5ohm (or thereabouts)

but note that this wa sin 'olden days' before ECU was invented ;-)

EDIT

can the coil be tested to see if it does/ doen't produce a spark when 'jury rigged' OFF the car, ie a mock up of what should work? ie a simple circuit with a 12V supply, a method of breaking the circuit and a spark plug. that would prove if it is the coil or the amplifier, or surely there MUST be a 'gash' coil that could be tried as a substitute for awee trial?
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:58 pm

That is a little silly for an old second hand coil, I agree. On the picture you can see the Bosch number. This helped me a great deal when I couldn't find the correct fuel pump (also Bosch, with a Volvo P/N).‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Robou
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by Robou » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:55 pm

@yorkievolvo: Not any coil, I stated coil meant for transitorized ignition, today's cheap standard. And after Alan 480's post I may add a coil meant to be used with a balast resistor but then used without the resistor.
"Any" coil would include the coils meant for use with breaker points which could only stand a certain current so the primary coil winding had a ohmic resistance in order to limit the current.
Semiconducters can switch any current and there is no need for this limitation, resulting in a better spark.
There is no need for all the fuzz in this thread about brands and serial numbers, in this context a coil is a coil is a coil, available at any parts store.
Too old to bother
480 Turbo midst '91

yorkievolvo
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:31 am

Thanks for all the information and suggestions.
However, my car has been in the garage for five weeks and the progress - NIL.
They appear to be using a softly-softly approach to changing all the ignition parts.
I’d like to try something different.
Is there anybody who is willing to test the components from my car?
I would remove all the ignition system parts (not wiring) and take them to the volunteer.
My parts could be installed, one at a time, in the test car and the car re-started. If it starts, it would prove that part and the next part would be installed. When the car doesn’t start - that’s the duff bit!
A bit of a long process but, hopefully, it would get me back on the road.
If you operate a Volvo 480 turbo circa 1991, and you’d like to volunteer, please send me a pm.
In order to attain a wider audience, a version of this note will be posted elsewhere on the forum.

jifflemon
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jifflemon » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:30 pm

got a brace of 1992 turbos, more than happy to help.

I'm genuinely surprised it's taken them so long.

yorkievolvo
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:41 pm

Thanks for the offer, jifflemon - may take you up on it.
I'm also surprised it's taken them so long but there's not a lot I can do about it.
Mechanicals - I'm ok. However, my knowledge & understanding of electrical circuits is just a bit better than that of a ten, sorry, five, year old. And the only way I can live with electronics is to consider the subject as 'magic', i.e., beyond all human comprehension and explanation. I blame that on my air force training.
Back to the subject. The latest news from the garage is: their electrical expert (?) has removed the ECU and taken it away for testing.
Does that make sense to anybody?
Have a good week-end.

jifflemon
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jifflemon » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:52 pm

From the sounds of things, you know MORE about electrics than they do.... :angry:

Where are you and the car based?

yorkievolvo
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:26 pm

Greetings jifflemon,
car and I are in Kingston upon Hull.
Visiting garage in the morning.

yorkievolvo
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Update
Item P/No. (Bosch) 0 227 400 194, the ECS deemed U/S.
Not sending pulse (signal?) to the amplifier (which triggers the coil - if I understand correctly).
So now looking for a replacement item or somebody who can effect a repair - wish me luck.

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:46 pm

Lake's Volvo have got piles of ECU's from many old Volvos so maybe you could try them? ‎01480212291 

I'm no turbo expert but I think the different ECU's are often talked about in terms of their label colour (red, orange, purple, blue). It might make your search easier if you can request one by the colour of yours and/or the part number.

Sounds like a good time to ask Robou nicely for a modified one if you ask me!‎
Last edited by jamescarruthers on Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:56 pm

Read here
https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... le#p195572 
and here ‎
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18009 
and here
https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... le#p165421
and here
https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... lit=purple

Sounds like you have a Red ECU which is forward and backwards compatible. However I would wait for someone else to verify this. I think we could probably work out which other ECU yours could run on if you post your chassis number and details of the other control box for the Turbo engine which is behind the centre console.

Before spending any money, maybe some kind soul could send you a Red ECU for testing?‎

And this is a really interesting thread too: https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... 94#p202186
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:48 pm

From this topic things become clearer regarding colour combinations: https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... cu#p206747

From our Robou:
Robou wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:56 pm
In order to get things right...
The Turbo has three Electronic Control Units, the EZ210K which handles ignition and turbo, the Jetronic which is mainly responsible for the injection and the CEM for all the electrical goodies.
The first two are where we are talking about here.

They do not per sé have matching colors. The purple EZ210K has a matching brown Jetronic, orange has an orange, red has a red and blue has a green.They appeared in this sequence.
Orange was introduced with the new camshaft, red amongst others with the bigger clutch and various functions of the Jetronic (auxiliary water pump) and blue when lambda sonde and cat became mandatory.
The introduction of orange came at chassis# 540197, red at #567600 and blue I do not know.
The pairs communicate and neither part should be exchanged for a different color. Nor should a different pair be used, think of the variable funtions of the Jetronic and the ignition timing of the EZ210K. The car may run, but definitely not as it should.
The only exception: From red to blue little changed, mainly the checking on the presence of the lambda sonde.So if you do away with cat and sonde the red combination may be used.

Each mod requires some soldering inside. Only the EZ210K is modded, so open it up and have a look. When the ECU has just one board inside, only the turbo has been manipulated, nothing has been done about the mapping, regardless of what you have been told. This can only be accomplished by exchanging the microcontroller and no tuner I know ever went through this procedure. Like above: It may run, but not as it should. There should be a second board of some type with an eprom inside.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

yorkievolvo
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:10 am

Thanks James,
however, did you read my comment about my relationship with electronics?
A real case of 'information over-load' for me!
You are correct - my ECU has a red label and I shall be contacting Roubou regarding his modifications forthwith.
I shall, also, be calling Lakes.
Have a good weekend, all.

yorkievolvo
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Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:31 am

Just called Lakes but nobody picked up the phone.
So, next step - has anybody got a spare, red-labelled ECU, P/No. (Bosch) 0 227 400 194; alternative no. 454441; for sale / loan?
Thanks.

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:35 am

Can you post your chassis number?

Regarding Lake's: They're both about 100 and are at work a lot but can often be in different parts of the place. To fully realise what you are dealing with, imagine a petrol station that closed 30 years ago,with a scrap yard out back, which has been bombed, ran by loveable pensioners‎.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

yorkievolvo
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by yorkievolvo » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Ah - got it!
So, James - the address of this wonderland, please.
Have a good weekend.

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2464
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Re: Engine Electrics

Post by jifflemon » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:30 pm

Lakes Autos
143-149 Great North Road
Wyboston
Bedford
MK44 3AH

Norm57
Can tell where the 480 was built
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Location: Knaresborough

Re: Engine Electrics

Post by Norm57 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:49 pm

Yorkievolvo, if he is still in business there is a guy much nearer to you. His name is Trevor, he is in Brandesburton his email is volvoman72@btconnect.com I have used him in the past though not recently. He lives on an old farm in the sticks and has barns full of Volvo spares. Last time I was there he had at least four wedges he was breaking and a complete GT, may be worthwhile contacting him as he is a lot closer to you, good luck

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