Reprogramming ECU options

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pol
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Reprogramming ECU options

Post by pol » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:26 am

Just been sniffing around the interweb as you do, reading about the bosch ecu's and came across this:

http://www.kwp2000.info/

Just wondering if it (or something similar) can be used on our ECU's. It does not mention the 480 but it seems that most Bosch ECU's share a common interface (OBDII) which can be used for both diagnostics and for upgrade / re-writing of the software.

There seems to be a couple of options for tuning the ECU, which all seem to have downsides.

The most popular seems to be the 'richmod' but this is not always available. I didn't have a spare ECU so was unable to get mine shipped to lee by the deadline etc etc. There is also megasquirt, and RICA, at a cost or a lot of work or both!

I am a member of a car forum as I like tinkering and fixing things for myself and i'd like to be able to tweak the ECU myself but at the moment I have little knowledge of the inside working. I'd love to try megasquirt but know it looks like a large project to take on. I am pretty competent with electronics and am a bit of a computer geek and have flashed roms / firmware etc for other devices so i'm just curious really!

Could it be possible to clone modified ECU's using something similar to the above? Should it be done?

Or is there software that can be used to tune the stock ECU?

That's my thought for the day anyway!

Cheers,

pol

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Ettore Bugatti
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Post by Ettore Bugatti » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:18 pm

Bosch LH and EZK are not equipped with a OBDII interface so it (kwp2000) is pretty worthless.

The R207 mod is also a possibility.

Or you could try to extract the maps from the EEPROM and put modified maps back to it with a EEPROM burner.

Or you could try your lcuk with a boost controller (Greddy, Apexi) in combination with a piggyback ECU (DASTEK, PerfectPower SMT6, Greddy E-manage)

In the tuning section there is more information about it.

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Post by pol » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:23 am

Hi Ettore,

I already use an MBC and have seen the how to for the resistor mod. I'm guessing the resistor mod would only trick the computer with false boost readings or reduce the resistance given to the solenoid? I'm not in a great hurry to modify my ecu but I just like to know that there are options available.

Anyway, as I say, I was just curious if there is a way to connect the ecu up to anything. Also curious about any diagnostic software.

Do you know how tuning companies, volvo or even rich would over write the software? Is there some sort of port or does the chip need to be removed or something?

Thanks,

pol

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Post by Ettore Bugatti » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:55 pm

I know that Rica do in some cases the resistor mod, but they also do chips (I think for the dual layer ECU?).

SAM is also a rewritten chip as is MR Sweden, you have to remove the eprom in the EZK read the data and burn a new one.
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Post by pol » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:45 pm

That's interesting. So if I took my ECU to RICA they may only do this resistor mod for £250? if so i'll do it myself.

Thanks,

pol

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Post by lee » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:06 pm

just have a richmod. this has been proved and tested and includes a full remap of the ecu. This also still has all the safety features intact incase something should happen instead of the resister mod. For the cost the richmod cannot be beaten for bhp per pound.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Post by pol » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:45 pm

Hi Lee, yes, the 'richmod' is no doubt good value for money! Only it seems it is not always available as rich is clearly busy and does not make a great deal of money out of it so probably has no big incentive?

Do you think there is likely to be more trips to richmod land in the future? If rich wanted to stop doing them then it'd leave us without the current cheapest and best option, again, this just got me thinking.... But it sounds like t's still as limited as ever!

Cheers,

pol

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Post by ted clutch » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:30 am

they certainly do make a lot of money.once you have a base map set up it will only cost a few pence to program it in.

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Post by glasgowjim » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:59 am

Ted

a bit more to this than you think read up on past posts a lot of effort went into this project on rich's part. It is a bit more than sticking an eprom into a programmer and downloading plus Lee who is incredibly busy is facilitating this at no profit to himself.

I know you mean no offence but your post could be taken as tacit criticism nobody is making oodles of money out of this.

The rich mod is tremendous value for money especially given that until this run by Lee richmods were selling around £130 to £150 second hand! :D

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Post by pol » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:19 am

I might open mine up some time. I'm curious about these resistor mods too. i found an old post where rich had found 4 or 5 resistors which could be varied. THis seems to be before he worked out some additional tuning.

I think i'll just have a play and see what I can break / see what I can learn!

pol

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Post by dave r5 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:38 am

all this eprom and resistor talk sounds technical

y dont u use omex 600 or dta

the fly wheel is 60-2
u get to loose the dizzy,the air flow meter, and the idle controll valve

and guaranteed it will be a lot safer and more affective
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Post by chriskay » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:06 am

dave r5 wrote: and guaranteed it will be a lot safer and more affective
Perhaps you're not the best judge of what is safer, considering what you've just done to your car.
As far as effective is concerned, you'll go to a lot of trouble & spend a lot more money to beat the Richmod (which preserves all the original Volvo safety features BTW), for a very modest price.
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Post by pol » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:21 am

:rofl: Good point! - But interesting to know of other options. I've never heard of DTA or Omex. Are these like MegaSquirt?

I'd like to try something like this. Is it possible to make a wiring harness that would convert the ecu connectors to something like megasquirt? That'd be a nice option!

- Hi Chris, there's no question over the richmod being a very good and value for money method for tuning. Only as he seems to be a busy guy, he's not always able to make these up for people as and when, it's good to see what other / DIY options are around. It has been covered a lot before, I know. - Maybe it's not worth following up??

pol

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Post by ted clutch » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:27 pm

but how much is omex. :kill: £££££££££££££

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Post by dave r5 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:53 pm

fair point but my dta isnt in yet but will be buy the end of the month

my engine went pop as i boosted way to much, boost spikes at 26 psi an holding at 20.
on a tricked airflow meter with a gt 28 rs an big injectors.

i wasnt knocking the richmod far from it was just stating that isnt it easyer to go full standalone.
regardess of cost.

yes omex dta efi are expencive yr looking at £600 just for the ecu alone

well ill be able to compare soon
my car was 175 bhp and 220lb/ft torque

with the dta im expected to make atleast 210 bhp and 250 lb/ft torque
with the added extras of launch control, antilag, pre set parameters, choic of degrees in adnance and retard, ect ect


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Post by Ettore Bugatti » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:30 pm

Omex and DTA have the advantage over Megasquirt that they offer after sale service. On the other hand they are much more expensive. Other brands are VEMS and KMS.

Besides people often make the mistake about the sophistication of OEM Ecu's. The size of the maps and control systems are often better then most aftermarket system. Knock detection is an example.
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Post by ted clutch » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:18 pm

yes oem are very sophisticated these days with fuel efficiency the main priority. they have good knowledge and money for development.my mates corsa for example i was quite surprised to read it was sequencial injection and knock detection on an individual per cylinder basis.it knows which individual cylinder is knocking and can retard it separately and also time the injection pulses for when the intake valves are open.the b18 ep being older is batch injection firing the injectors all together weather the valves are open or not.i would suspect the knock retard operates them all as well but mine is 18 years old to be fair.and i do get between 37-39 mpg so quite good by todays standard.the only drawback of oem is not being open source and harder to hack into and tune because they dont want people fiddling with their settings.mega squirt is very accesible but not too sophisticated.it has no learning function for lambda and not many protection features for turboing but gets the job done.it was developed by a couple of american hot- roders as an alternative to the carb.

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Post by dragon » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:59 pm

Your problem with aftermarket ECUs is the map - you won't find a 480 map for them anywhere, and to make your own will mean you need to own at the very least a wideband sensor (££££££) along with a laptop and a friend to do stuff whilst you drive. Then it's hour after hour of driving, tweaking, driving

That's why my megasquirt stayed in it's box, after we had it all wired up and could watch all the pretty guages on the laptop as the car ran...

If you are feeling flush and want a challenge, sure it's a fun thing to do. Just don't expect any solution to be RichMod Cheap, as it won't be.
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Post by ted clutch » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:05 pm

wideband is luvley but as you say you have to dig deep into your pocket.and only use it for tuning as they dont last as long as a narrow band so again lots of climbing under the car to remove it.once you have it though i suppose you can use it on many dirrerent jobs.

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Post by dave r5 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:44 pm

agreed about the wide band

but as for mapping, ill have it dun for me.

i have the use of a tat rolling road and a verry experianced person.

i have an example of wat mapable ecus can acheive

my freind collin, owns his own rolling road center. he built a torboed 106 gti.

with dta the unit ive just bought from him, he was pushing 337 bhp

agen wasnt knocking the richmod ppl so plz dont take offence
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/badboi106/sigs/daver5new.jpg[/img]
renault shell, custom cage, no dash, volvo engine, nissan turbo, apexi boost controler, ksm re-wire, persision automotive down pipe, dta engine management to come. 175 BHP 220 LB/FT torque
ring me for parts 07805391168

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