Air con with only slider controls? (Looking to buy a 480)

[IKnowItsABadIdea]

I found out that there was such a thing as a 480 just a couple of months ago and was immediately caught in its gravitational pull.

But I do know that I wouldn't be happy in a car without air conditioning on hot summer days, especially when taking friends along. From what I've gathered so far retrofitting one would be a lot of work, so I'm trying to find one that has it already. For the few months that I've been on the lookout they do seem to be pretty rare, but I've now found one were the seller states that it has AC. But from the pictures it only has the two slider controls (direction, temp) and the fan speed knob.

I looked both in the user manual and Group 87 Service Manual and they both indicate that there should be a row of buttons on the air con equipped models. Could it be a just a different model year or is the seller mistaken? The car is a Swedish sold ES from '89.

If this car might still have air con, is there an easy way for me to verify this? Finding the condenser would be good, but from the illustrations I can't tell if it's in the engine bay or just deep behind the dash. I've tried looking at engine bay pictures but not found anything recognizable.

[WillC9303]

Unless the car has been fitted with an aftermarket A/C conversion (some 480s had this and kept their slider controls) then it won’t have A/C. The easiest way to tell would be to look in the engine bay. Cars without A/C have more room at the front of the engine and down by the alternator.

Early non-A/C cars had a push button VEM system similar to the A/C setup. It was removed around 1988/89 due to issues with reliability.

[WRDendy]

I borrowed both of these photos from Google, which show the difference in the engine bay:



On the left you can see the drier in the green circle, with associated pipework coming out. The compressor is down at the bottom of the engine on the left side (won't be able to see it in listing photos but visible in person), with the steering pump at the top. The condenser is hidden under the nosecone at the front, not very visible unless you know what you're looking for.

On the right there's no drier present, nor the rest of the AC system, with the steering pump lower down on the left. Also no ABS (top right above the air box). To complicate things even more, one looks like a RHD and the other a LHD, but the engine itself is of course the same!

Will C tends to know his stuff when it comes to obscure 480 variants so I'm happy to believe that there are cars out there with aftermarket conversions, and if so I'd certainly like to see one just to have a look at how they did it! Maybe more of a thing on the continent than over here in the UK? Having said all that, the factory AC (when it works) is extremely effective, and, even if it doesn't work, there's a wealth of information on here on how to make it work, assuming it's R134a.

One more thing: change your username - getting a 480 is not only a great idea, but quite possibly one of the best ideas you'll ever have!

[WillC9303]

I'm happy to believe that there are cars out there with aftermarket conversions, and if so I'd certainly like to see one just to have a look at how they did it! Maybe more of a thing on the continent than over here in the UK?

I believe they were really only found on the continent. That being said, my knowledge on these is hazy much beyond the fact that they do exist. Thijs from the Dutch club has one such car. As you can see there are controls for A/C & re-circ where the blank button is next to the seat heater switches, but the manual sliders remain. Whether or not his car actually HAS it installed I can't quite remember, but it's not the only 480 I have seen with the exact same buttons for it - very much an aftermarket thing though.



As shown in WRDendy's photos, you will know if you have it as the engine bay will be far busier!

[IKnowItsABadIdea]

Thanks for showing me what to look for in the engine bay WRDendy and those buttons are also very interesting WillC9303. Unfortunately the interior pictures in the ad are taken at an angle that doesn't show where those extra buttons would be and there are no pictures of the engine bay at all.

But I will meet with the seller on Sunday and then I'll ask some more about it and take plenty of pictures. So if there is some novel installation you will all get to see it.

[IKnowItsABadIdea]

Today I went and had a look at the car, unsurprisingly quite a few things showed up that needed fixing:

1. Signal horn not operational (seller stated new horn needed)
2. Speedometer not operational (dead, instrument cluster already re-soldered, seller suspected a connector failure in engine bay)
3. EXT temp sensor not operational, always indicates -40
4. Rear view window heater not operational (cable frayed/off at hatch joint)
5. Rear view window wiper and wiper arm not mounted, arm is included (seller states new motor needed)
6. Driver side cloth door panel almost not attached at all
7. Driver side door speaker not mounted, no signal in cables
8. Driver side seat cloth has big hole on the side
9. Both seat belt extender arms missing
10. Passenger side seat folding lever missing
11. Cabin air fan sounded like belt slipping on setting 1-4, most on 1-2
12. Parking brake handle goes all the way up and has poor strength, need gear to hold on incline (seller states serviced recently with new cable, but then driven with break applied)
13. Car stereo mounted but not fastened
14. Both window elevators broken (grinding sound, no movement, seller states mechanism needs replacement)
15. Service historyn't (seller states timing belt needs replacing, but that breaks, oil, oil filter and some other things have been replaced)
16. Driver side rear view mirror adjust not operational, also lacks external front fairing
17. Passenger side rear view mirror adjust intermittent, also not smooth sounding
18. Seller unplugs the new battery if leaving car for more than a few days, states it would last only a week and a half
19. All summer tyres need replacing (thread almost at legal limit and dry cracks), no winter tyres
20. Seller states car burned oil from middle to MIN in some months of driving (unsure about implication of this)
21. Driving can be jerky under 2000 RPM, gear 1 and 2 (seller states you can need to give clutch)

And now the picture dump I promised:



















Then there was that question about the air con. The seller ensured that it indeed does have AC and blows cold air in the summer. He also demonstrated this, but since it was 10 degree C outside at the time that doesn't tell much. It also clearly does not have an air con drier next to the battery as with the original setup, I also couldn't see any other obvious air con parts in the engine bay, but that is to my untrained eye. In general it seems to me to be in-between the two red cars in the reference images, even if this one is supposed to have both AC and ABS.

I haven't fully gathered my thoughts on it yet, but my current feel is that the todo list is a bit more extensive than I would have wanted and if you guys can't find an air con in those pictures that would be a deal breaker. A shame because it do be a lovely car and there are good things to say about this sample as well, like not seeming to have much rust, it has recently passed the mandatory checkup and is road legal for 1,5 year and it has a bunch of things fixed on it.

[jifflemon]

there's absolutely NOT AC on that car.

The only space for the compressor would be under the alternator. As the car has power steering, that space is occupied by the Power Steering pump.
Then add in that you've a picture showing a radiator - No AC condenser visible.
then finally, there's no receiver/dryer, or pipework going to the heater box.

This, along with the list of faults you've already found would certainly have me looking for a better starting point.

[IKnowItsABadIdea]

Thank you everyone for your help. I have let the seller know I'm not getting it, the reason for the confusion about the air con was that he didn't know that cars could have fans without having cooling.

[Martin63]

Thank you everyone for your help. I have let the seller know I'm not getting it, the reason for the confusion about the air con was that he didn't know that cars could have fans without having cooling.

As Jeff said, you will find a better starting point. Not sure where you are based but often at this time of the year with winter approaching 480s come onto the market.

They are great cars but you are doing the right thing in taking your time and waiting for the right one. Air con is going to be tough to find though.