How to buy a 480

Here you can talk about the joy owning a Volvo 480 brings. Non-technical discussions take place here, like what is the difference between an ES and a S version.

Moderators: jifflemon, coyote1980, Rachel

Post Reply
jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2457
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 am

How to buy a 480

Post by jifflemon » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:14 am

Having seen, and got infuriated by, several for sale ads recently, I figured I'd share my thoughts around buying a 480. This is by no means a definitive guide, but its how I go about buying a car.

Step 1: Know thy subject. (buy in haste, repent at leisure)

We've all been there. You need a 480. Everyone else has one, they're super cool and you've a wedge of cash literally burning a hole in your pocket.
At this point, you really need to step away from the Ads, and start your studying. Know your car. Know where to look, what goes wrong, what it takes to fix etc. Knowledge here is going to save you LOTS in the long run.
Edie did a great video on youtube highlighting a lot of what to look for.
Everyone on this forum is probably MORE than happy to take a look at any potential cars and spot stuff to question.

Step 2: Budget. (it's never enough)

Have a realistic budget. Remember to factor in running costs. If you're handy with the spanners, a 480 is a fantastic car to own; I'll happily argue its the golden age of motoring, with enough electrics to keep you from missing your modern, whilst making servicing and maintenance a straightforward, no need for a bloody computer affair.
If you're NOT au fait with the spanners, then you're going to need to make sure that you've got a garage who doesn't shy away from old cars.
My general rule of thumb is that its going to cost you £500 a year to maintain a car. Some years you may not come close to it, others you'll bust through that with ease.
Know your budget not only for buying a car, but for its first year of running.
You've got to be realistic. If you're buying at the bottom end of the market, you're going to have to let a lot slide. The difference between a £200 car and a £2000 car should be very much noticeable.
Sadly, that doesn't mean some people aren't going to try and pass off that £200 car as a £2000 car one.

Step 3: Viewing the car (Sorting the wheat from the chaff)

No, not in the metal. We're a LONG way from that. This is the part where most of the cars can be dealt with.
Rule#1. Use your brain, not your heart.
Read the advert, look at the pictures. Then do it all again, this time with your brain.
Things that will instantly trigger me?
"No MOT but should easily pass one" - Really? Then why haven't you done that?
"Just needs an XYZ...." - Then put one on!
"MOT tester/Mechanic says it's the cleanest one he's seen" - Does the car come with signed statement from said person? Just how many 480's has this person seen? Are they going to personally warranty the car?
"full service history, but previous owner lost paperwork" - So that's NO service history

Rule#2. Always check the MOT history.
MOT's in uk went computerised back in 2006 ish, so at least 50% of the MOT's should be online.
Look for mileage discrepancies, signs of corrosion. I like to look at advisory notices, particularly ones that keep re-appearing.

Rule#3. Scrutinise the photos and don't be afraid to ask for more. Gone are the days when it was difficult to do photo's. Photo's are always going to show the best bits of the car. The seller wants to show the car in the best light. You need to get in the habit of looking BEYOND the photo.
Car stood on wet ground/local carwash? Photos all at different times of the Year?

Rule#4. Start the conversation. How long have they had the car? Why is it being sold? What your trying to understand is whether this is a genuine owner, or some Mike Brewer wannabe.

Step 4: View the car (yes, in the metal)

When viewing the car in person, nothing should be a surprise. You'll have hopefully be aware of any problem areas prior to purchase. Its now about assessing whether the problem(s) are bad enough to walk away from.
I personally like to see the V5. Not just to check the chassis number against the ones stamped on the car, but to see that the registered keeper is the address/person selling the car.
If possible, test drive the car - I actually prefer to let the seller drive, leaving me free to listen for knocks, rattles and weirdness rather than "where the hell am I driving".
You need the test drive to be long enough for the car to get warm, with a combination of low speed and high speed sections.
Rot is the single biggest killer of 480's, so check all the usual places. If you don't know what your looking for, take someone who does. If you do know what to look for, take a foam mat to kneel/lie on! A lucky fridge magnet could save you a lot of pain.

In terms of what to pay, my method is quite straightforward, almost equation like (because it's brain, not heart that's buying)
Assume a very good car is worth X. What is this car, going to take to get to X?
Take that list, break it down into short term, medium and long term.
Now be realistic. Pretty much every 480 out there is going to need paintwork in some form. A stone chip I'd not worry about. Rot I do.
Mechanical stuff? If its service items, you're going to end up replacing most within a year. However, if it needs new wishbones, droplinks and shocks all round, that's a different story.
Broken/Missing trim is always tricky to source, simply because "they all do that". Are the rear lights at a saveable or replaceable stage?

What I then do is deduct about 50% of the price of what the above is going to cost me from the asking price.

The single most important part is being prepared to walk away; Remember that budget? there's little point in buying the car if you can't afford to run it/maintain it.

User avatar
MisterH
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: Stockbridge

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by MisterH » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:58 am

Brilliant guide Jeff for more than just 480s, I admit I did sort of jump in with the Audi, yes we have experience with the quattro, but it seemed all doable (which it probably is) but the main reason I did was because if it went wrong I knew I could bail out and sell for most of or all of what I paid for it, such is the market for those cars, which brings me on to a point that I think you missed:

Worst Case Scenario Planning:
So you want this car, but how much can you reasonably expect to get for it if you had to sell it again next week? If you have to bail out, how much of it can you liquify back into cash? If it is beyond you, will you be able to shift it again? Don't buy something if you feel it will tie you down, only buy something that is within your means to get right, or is easy to sell if you get it wrong

I learned with the Rover that it's ok to buy at a price that is a bit more than you are willing to pay if you know you can get that price back when you sell, I am not talking about profit, but breaking even. I had to sell the Rover at essentially cost/price because it is a very limited market, even for an immaculate car. 480s are gaining in popularity, but they are still the definition of niche, and you can't bank on the fact there will be a queue of enthusiasts lining up for your car if you sell, they'll probably have 4 of them already! :lol:
Current Jobs to do (23/1/22):
Fix Central Locking
Fix drivers side speaker
Annoying Scratching Squeak
Water leaks
Complete Front O/S rebuild

User avatar
dcwalker
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: York

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by dcwalker » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:18 pm

That's a good write up Jeff and spot on.

Good further point too Ben, although I guess those considerations should be gone through as part of assessing your overall budget.

We seem to have reached that stage where decent examples are attracting higher asking and buying prices - which means that a lot of buyers with somewhat less-than-decent examples are trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Never is the old expression caveat emptor more relevant than at that point in a car's life on the market...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

100
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:23 pm

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by 100 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:38 pm

Great post Jeff, one point that really needs to be reconsidered: surely no one actually 'want's' to be like Mike Brewer!

Norm57
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:08 pm
Location: Knaresborough

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by Norm57 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:38 pm

Great post Jeff. I have used something like this with the thirty or forty odd cars I have owned,except of course when it comes to the wedge, heart has always ruled head unfortunately. I even acquired one without even seeing a picture of said car!

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2457
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 am

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by jifflemon » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:28 am

100 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:38 pm
Great post Jeff, one point that really needs to be reconsidered: surely no one actually 'want's' to be like Mike Brewer!
Sadly, all people see is making money for doing nothing....

People forget that Wheeler Dealers, flipping bangers, Car SOS, etc etc, are entertainment - NOT - factual car restoration.

One of the things I love about you tube is that it allows for the removal of the entertainment part (you know, that back story nonsense they HAVE to put in) and allows actual talented people to show their work.

I'll go on record to say that you cannot, as a business, restore a car for profit.

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1485
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by Alan 480 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:45 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:28 am

I'll go on record to say that you cannot, as a business, restore a car for profit.
incorrect

these companies exist, BUT when the restoration costs £10k , it ain't for a car that will only ever sell for £3k . . . .

but otherwise well done for sage advice...

can always come up in price to meet the buyers asking

my first car was either £175 or £200, paid in full, then found rust on a GRP car, chassis is still metal :-(

Next one was asking £100, bought for £20
next asking £500, bought for £350, poking holes in the sill took lots off the purchase price, BUT still running it nearly 30 years later....
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

User avatar
MisterH
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: Stockbridge

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by MisterH » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:28 am
100 wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:38 pm
Great post Jeff, one point that really needs to be reconsidered: surely no one actually 'want's' to be like Mike Brewer!
Sadly, all people see is making money for doing nothing....

People forget that Wheeler Dealers, flipping bangers, Car SOS, etc etc, are entertainment - NOT - factual car restoration.

One of the things I love about you tube is that it allows for the removal of the entertainment part (you know, that back story nonsense they HAVE to put in) and allows actual talented people to show their work.

I'll go on record to say that you cannot, as a business, restore a car for profit.
I do agree many of those shows, most tragically Wheeler Dealers, are just Big Budget BS now.

However I must say that Car SOS is by far and away the most authentic car restoration program out there. I say this because of the level of focus the show gives to the restoration and the industries surrounding it. Coming from a family SME background, it is great to see the classic car industry get good exposure on the show, while having enough entertainment value to keep people interested, and potentially get new people into the hobby. In addition, it also gets the serious nature of restoration across, such as the Mercedes Pagoda episode where they literally had to reshell it from scratch. Yes the 3 week deadline is always a little eyebrow raising for me, but they do tend to be honest about when they have to go over, it is a very interesting exercise in project management.

I also think the presenters have been very well chosen. Fuzz is just fantastic, someone who really knows motors and also how to explain them to those less enlightened, such as myself. While Tim may come across as comic (or not so) relief, he is very good at reading the mood and handling the public.

I am not sure as to why Backstory is an issue, as for me personally, it is vitally important to keep the program on point, especially when it has a very personal ethos to it, where the cars and what they mean to people are the main focus, rather than the "Restore it in a weekend and get rich" format so many others that you have mentioned, embrace. I think this is hugely important because after all, the story is what makes old cars interesting. There is a reason why I have zero interest in a Lamborghini Sian, it is completely dull as it has no history. It's just a very fast box.

Personally, Car SOS is one of the greatest automotive programs of the decade, as it keeps it real, while able to keep it engaging too. It manages to get the tone right, the facts right, and it manages to do this all while keeping it accessible to a wide audience, which as a movement, is the sort of thing we need. The last thing we need is to shut out people who may have the passion but find it hard to access, and a show like this is great for getting people excited, something dearly needed in this age.

But yes, It is painfully obvious each resto was non-profitable...

Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but I felt I had something to contribute :D
Current Jobs to do (23/1/22):
Fix Central Locking
Fix drivers side speaker
Annoying Scratching Squeak
Water leaks
Complete Front O/S rebuild

User avatar
dragonflyjewels
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:38 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by dragonflyjewels » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:18 pm

That's interesting Ben, I haven't seen Car SOS but will make a point of watching it now. Tangents can be very useful :D

Going back to the original theme of the thread, as a prudent accountant my budgeting system might be helpful. Having decided on a realistic average annual spend, I've setup a separate account (preferably an interest earning one that gives a slightly better rate for a regular saver). Then a monthly standing order goes in ready for the arrival of the bills. If you are lucky enough to have cash left at the end of a year, leave it where it is ready for when disaster strikes. ALL 30 year old cars will have disasters, so a bit of extra cash might make all the difference.
Sylvia

Snazzy - 1993 Paris Blue ES red dipstick 2.0i bought 2001
Lethal Lily - 1991 White Turbo
Paris the Unicorn - 1991 Paris Edition
hubby has
Sven - 1994 Racing Green GT
Evil Eva - 1992 Paris Blue Turbo

no previous 480s - can't bear to sell any

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2457
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 am

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by jifflemon » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:42 pm

MisterH wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
[ do agree many of those shows, most tragically Wheeler Dealers, are just Big Budget BS now.
Not just BS, but advertising by stealth. Interestingly, something you're not allowed to do on Youtube.
MisterH wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
However I must say that Car SOS is by far and away the most authentic car restoration program out there. I say this because of the level of focus the show gives to the restoration and the industries surrounding it. Coming from a family SME background, it is great to see the classic car industry get good exposure on the show, while having enough entertainment value to keep people interested, and potentially get new people into the hobby. In addition, it also gets the serious nature of restoration across, such as the Mercedes Pagoda episode where they literally had to reshell it from scratch. Yes the 3 week deadline is always a little eyebrow raising for me, but they do tend to be honest about when they have to go over, it is a very interesting exercise in project management.
The small companies getting exposure is great - however, as someone who has tried to track down those companies, they DO NOT make it easier, no do I think, spend enough time showing what goes on. It's typically Tim Nice but Dim performing some ludicrous act to crowbar the segment in. Because we're car nerds, we'd probably happily watch 10 minutes of someone re-upholstering a seat, but that doesn't make for good TV. The 3 week deadline is equally BS, done purely for entertainment purposes of driving the story along.
MisterH wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
I am not sure as to why Backstory is an issue, as for me personally, it is vitally important to keep the program on point, especially when it has a very personal ethos to it, where the cars and what they mean to people are the main focus, rather than the "Restore it in a weekend and get rich" format so many others that you have mentioned, embrace. I think this is hugely important because after all, the story is what makes old cars interesting. There is a reason why I have zero interest in a Lamborghini Sian, it is completely dull as it has no history. It's just a very fast box.
The backstory annoys me because it's X-factor like. The sadder, more tragic the story, the better TV it makes. How many times have they done "here's Ben, he bought a Quattro and is completely in over his head, so we're going to step in and help him out"? :rofl:

Watch the infamous Project Binky on YouTube. Now THAT is genuine and mind boggling entertainment. Realistic too, given that the "quick project" has now been ongoing for 7 years, and they've managed to get distracted with side projects too! :rofl:

Oh and sad fact, I've actually been on Car SOS.

No, I'm not going to tell you which episode!

User avatar
MisterH
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:15 pm
Location: Stockbridge

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by MisterH » Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:39 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:42 pm
MisterH wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
[ do agree many of those shows, most tragically Wheeler Dealers, are just Big Budget BS now.
Not just BS, but advertising by stealth. Interestingly, something you're not allowed to do on Youtube.
MisterH wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
However I must say that Car SOS is by far and away the most authentic car restoration program out there. I say this because of the level of focus the show gives to the restoration and the industries surrounding it. Coming from a family SME background, it is great to see the classic car industry get good exposure on the show, while having enough entertainment value to keep people interested, and potentially get new people into the hobby. In addition, it also gets the serious nature of restoration across, such as the Mercedes Pagoda episode where they literally had to reshell it from scratch. Yes the 3 week deadline is always a little eyebrow raising for me, but they do tend to be honest about when they have to go over, it is a very interesting exercise in project management.
The small companies getting exposure is great - however, as someone who has tried to track down those companies, they DO NOT make it easier, no do I think, spend enough time showing what goes on. It's typically Tim Nice but Dim performing some ludicrous act to crowbar the segment in. Because we're car nerds, we'd probably happily watch 10 minutes of someone re-upholstering a seat, but that doesn't make for good TV. The 3 week deadline is equally BS, done purely for entertainment purposes of driving the story along.
MisterH wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:02 pm
I am not sure as to why Backstory is an issue, as for me personally, it is vitally important to keep the program on point, especially when it has a very personal ethos to it, where the cars and what they mean to people are the main focus, rather than the "Restore it in a weekend and get rich" format so many others that you have mentioned, embrace. I think this is hugely important because after all, the story is what makes old cars interesting. There is a reason why I have zero interest in a Lamborghini Sian, it is completely dull as it has no history. It's just a very fast box.
The backstory annoys me because it's X-factor like. The sadder, more tragic the story, the better TV it makes. How many times have they done "here's Ben, he bought a Quattro and is completely in over his head, so we're going to step in and help him out"? :rofl:

Watch the infamous Project Binky on YouTube. Now THAT is genuine and mind boggling entertainment. Realistic too, given that the "quick project" has now been ongoing for 7 years, and they've managed to get distracted with side projects too! :rofl:

Oh and sad fact, I've actually been on Car SOS.

No, I'm not going to tell you which episode!
Haha, to be fair to myself, we weren't in over our heads when we bought the quattro 35 years ago :rofl:

Surely in order to be a good TV program it needs to try to be a good TV program? Certainly following the program since its debut, it has improved year on year. I am usually very cynical when it comes to TV these days, unless its on the Yesterday channel which seem to do quirky stuff, or re runs of Blake's 7, but following Car SOS it has definitely improved and the format, to my tastes at least works very well. After Wheeler Dealers went packing to America, Car SOS suddenly seemed so much more relevant to the real world, but maybe I am starting to tread into bias for UK programming here.

However, If you have a problem with UK resto shows, prepare yourself for the French ones. I was in France one year doing a placement at a BMW dealership. One night I tuned into the TV and they had "Vintage Mechanic" on, so I watched it. It was very odd. They bought a Mini, changed the clutch and painted the engine block the wrong shade of Green, then it was suddenly all shiny and they sold it for a profit. Ok so my grasp of French isn't at the point where I can understand what Michel Brasseur is saying (he certainly doesn't go 'old out yer 'and) but it was really strange and even made Wheeler Dealers look like a grounded drama.

Couldn't find the Mini one, here's a Dino, don't know what it was like but I watched a couple over there and it was a bit weird
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG8CtpNdzpU

Now the above views are purely based off of what I saw in the Episodes I watched, and I know some French Film and TV is great stuff if you can follow it, just this might not be one of them...

And as for your appearance in a certain TV show, maybe that can be a new game: 'Jeff or no Jeff?'
Current Jobs to do (23/1/22):
Fix Central Locking
Fix drivers side speaker
Annoying Scratching Squeak
Water leaks
Complete Front O/S rebuild

User avatar
WillC9303
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:46 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: How to buy a 480

Post by WillC9303 » Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:58 pm

I've been watching Wheeler Dealers since I was about 11 or 12 and I can safely say that I haven't learned a single thing from any of it. From my own personal experience I would say the best learning is from owning a car first hand. I've only owned my car for a very short while, but its taught me more about cars and mechanics than any TV show ever has.
William

1993 2.0i Limited Edition

Post Reply