Disaster!

Does your 480 have tracking-problems? Does your car pull to one side? Or is your steering wheel vibrating? Read the posts in this category to find out what's going on.

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nigel poustie
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Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:08 pm

My mounting bracket on my subframe that holds the lower arm on has sheared and nearly snapped off!
Has anyone had experience of this? And what have you done/had done?
My Mechanic reckons you’d have to be a very good welder to put your name to welding a new bracket to the subframe.
So has anyone got a subframe for a 2.0L
Also, my spring has snapped, it needs both lower arms replacing (bushes), I’ve got a leak from behind where the clutch is, so might as well do that whilst we’re one.
Is it worth it?
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Disaster!

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:39 pm

Oh dear, that’s not good! If the subframes are the same as the 440/460 then there are plenty of those sitting about at Lake’s Volvo breakers.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
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dcwalker
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Re: Disaster!

Post by dcwalker » Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:44 pm

Oh no Nigel!

I don't have a subframe. I am, however, breaking a 440 at the moment (no, not the one I've talked about on here, another one I am giving a detour to as it heads to the scrapyard).

It's a 1.8, if that makes a difference and I have no idea what state the subframe is in anyway. Furthermore I am not at all sure they are the same as the 480 since they have a strange block midway at the front...

But I will look into it for you if you'd like?

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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dcwalker
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Re: Disaster!

Post by dcwalker » Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:45 pm

So, having done some research I have established that there appear to be many more different part numbers for the 480 subframe than for the 440/460.

On early models all three cars are the same.

Manual 440/460 from chassis number 206700 have a subframe with the part number 3426789. No cut off chassis number is given so on that basis I believe that both the 1994 1.8 440 I am breaking, and the 1996 2.0 440 that is my ongoing project, are sitting on the same subframe.

The block at the front is just a bolt on weight that presumably the different shape of the 480 did not require, so removing that is not a problem (provided it doesn't turn out to be holding the thing together, I guess!).

Turning to the 480, and sticking just to manuals and later ones since yours is a Celebration, manual 480s from chassis number 581000 to 590793 also sit on the subframe with the part number 3426789. So that looks very promising. However, the part number changes for 480s from chassis number 590794 onwards (to 3429176).

So my question is this - can anyone work out what the difference might be? Because I can't and having spent many a happy hour under late 480s and now late 440s they all look the same...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:56 pm

Thanks for your help David.
My Chassis number is 592653
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

Alan 480
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Re: Disaster!

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:57 pm

I wa sin similar issue (caught before sheared)

there is a photo on here, I'll look for the link?

the main change is the rear engine mount what age is your two litre one?

the auto/manual are VERY different although if push comes to shove the gear box mount, FRONT N/S could be 'modified to suit a manual, by removing the bit from your subframe although that means double work?

I managed to swap the sbframe and I did this with engine and gear-box in situ, engine on a crane and car on axle stands :-)

losts of wiggling to get subframe over the top of teh lambda fitting, but all possible.

I did mine on one of hottest days we'd had for yeras >24C, and I was like a greased pig when better half collected me from oppo's house at other side of city...

the old L reg one's chassis is 587177 and looks the same as the new Celebrtaion (last of line)
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:05 pm

My Car is 1995 - 2.0L

Thanks to David we’ve established it’s part no 3429176 I’m looking for.
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

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dcwalker
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Re: Disaster!

Post by dcwalker » Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:05 pm

Alan 480 wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:57 pm
I wa sin similar issue (caught before sheared)

there is a photo on here, I'll look for the link?

the main change is the rear engine mount what age is your two litre one?

the auto/manual are VERY different although if push comes to shove the gear box mount, FRONT N/S could be 'modified to suit a manual, by removing the bit from your subframe although that means double work?

I managed to swap the sbframe and I did this with engine and gear-box in situ, engine on a crane and car on axle stands :-)

losts of wiggling to get subframe over the top of teh lambda fitting, but all possible.

I did mine on one of hottest days we'd had for yeras >24C, and I was like a greased pig when better half collected me from oppo's house at other side of city...

the old L reg one's chassis is 587177 and looks the same as the new Celebrtaion (last of line)
Thanks Alan, that's useful. As I said above, I can't see why they should be different.

My GT is 588528, but that means she is supposed to be on the same one as the breaker 440. But like you I think they look the same. And the 1996 2.0 440 is on the same subframe as the other two.

I'm thinking what I have ought to fit Nigel's, but someone might be able to clarify?

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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Re: Disaster!

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:04 pm

one link here,

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35651&p=215046&hilit=lambda#p215046

so an auto sub-frame could be easily fixed to suit the manual box, much easier if you have one to compare :-)

I'll look for the other one to save an extra post, it was 'quite recent' but darned if I can find which topic it was in....

I know Sylvia posted a comment and I'd replied, if that narrows it down.

and try this, but the ruddy link is bust, I can send you it or Jeff will correct me (again)

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36380&p=223783&hilit=mount#p223783
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Jay-Kay-Em
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Re: Disaster!

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:44 pm

Nigel sorry to hear this.

I saw a picture of a rotted out 480 subframe the other day, can't remember where, and thought "you know what, its only a matter of time before one of these gives way"

You just have to hope and pray that the MoT process is robust enough to catch any more.

I have weld repaired subframes before - and the jury is out if that is allowed - but never where it affects suspension geometry. On that basis, I fully support a second hand subframe if you can find one. Thankfully, many second hand ones are covered in oil as a self preserving function :lol:

Good luck sourcing a repair and a photo of the failed item would be good for reference.
Jay-Kay-Em
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nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:55 pm

Thanks yes, I’m definitely hoping to get a full sub frame rather than repair. Although mine doesn’t seem to particularly rotten, the bracket has simply just sheared and is hanging on by a thread.
I would post a picture but I’ve never managed to do that here.
There’s a photo of the Facebook 480 UK group if your on there!
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

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edie_fox
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Re: Disaster!

Post by edie_fox » Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:57 pm

viewtopic.php?t=36380

I saw one not too long ago. It's not there now but I know I messaged him....let me see if i still have the message to find the seller.... Just in the slight hope it was of any use/still for sale.

Update: no luck. Only go as far back as August. Not sure if Terry Stone is still in business? Driffield area. Great stuff but hard to maintain contact at times.
Although, condition of those vehicles might not be great. Can't be sure.

Volvo Saab Breakers on eBay? Could message them, perhaps.

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Re: Disaster!

Post by jifflemon » Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:09 am

So, couple of thoughts

As far as I'm aware there's 4 subframes: Manual / Auto in Early/Late variants. The auto's tubular frame bends down on the NS to give space for the gearbox.
Jay-Kay-Em wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:44 pm
I have weld repaired subframes before - and the jury is out if that is allowed - but never where it affects suspension geometry. On that basis, I fully support a second hand subframe if you can find one. Thankfully, many second hand ones are covered in oil as a self preserving function :lol:
"officially" you can't weld repair a subframe. I say officially, because my argument is "how the hell are they constructed?"

I'd look to repair it by obtaining and welding the reinforcement plate in, rather than repair the current one. this bit:

Image

nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:17 pm

I have spoke to someone who is prepared to weld a repair but obviously my subframe has to be in a condition to weld to ie not rusty.
It didn’t look too bad but I’d have to have a better look
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:25 pm

Obviously a replacement subframe is the preferable option.
If rung around all the Volvo breaker in the north with no luck.
I’m waiting on Terry who has a celebration but he didn’t want to break it that far yet, so was going to look to see if he had another!?!
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:12 pm

I have sourced a sub frame from a celebration! Hurray!
From Terry in East Yorkshire, what a hero!
Thanks everyone here for pointing me in the right direction.
I will no doubt be back again for more advice!
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

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edie_fox
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Re: Disaster!

Post by edie_fox » Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:19 pm

nigel poustie wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:12 pm
I have sourced a sub frame from a celebration! Hurray!
From Terry in East Yorkshire, what a hero!
Thanks everyone here for pointing me in the right direction.
I will no doubt be back again for more advice!
Excellent! Fingers crossed it's the right one! Haha.
Why do they have to make things so hard for us, hey?! :wall:

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Jay-Kay-Em
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Re: Disaster!

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:49 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:09 am
Jay-Kay-Em wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:44 pm
I have weld repaired subframes before - and the jury is out if that is allowed
"officially" you can't weld repair a subframe. I say officially, because my argument is "how the hell are they constructed?"
Yeah, my viewpoint entirely. However, Mr. DVSA he say :

5.3.3. Suspension arms, rods, struts, sub-frames, anti-roll bars etc.

Unsafe modifications include:

welded repairs
• the use of excessive heat to highly stressed components
• modifications likely to affect the roadworthiness of the vehicle

I chased in a small repair section to the Mk2. When done properly, ground flush and powder coated, there's no way of knowing. I challenge any MoT tester to spot where!

Image

Case by case basis really, based on the skill and confidence of the welder and the ability of the MoT tester to spot it.

Congratulations Nigel on sourcing a replacement; the best option (if that 28 year old item has survived any better!).
Jay-Kay-Em
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nigel poustie
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Re: Disaster!

Post by nigel poustie » Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:53 pm

The thing about a replacement is; it’s off the car and I can do get it treated and painted
1995 -storm grey Celebration - 108

Alan 480
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Re: Disaster!

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:56 pm

nigel poustie wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:53 pm
The thing about a replacement is; it’s off the car and I can do get it treated and painted
Thats a decent win:win :hopping:
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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