Brake upgrade

98kellrs · Post by **98kellrs** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:02 pm

There appears to be a fair few topics on better brake pads, and whether turbo discs will work on an ES etc, but I was wondering if there are any performance aftermarket calipers, discs and pads that would work, or perhaps if more powerful calipers and/or larger discs can be obtained off other cars? Possibly other Volvo's or perhaps Saab 900's ?

I say this because I was having severe issues slowing the car down on the recent trackday and if i'm going to invest in some nice track tyres then i'd like to be able to slow them down!

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:09 pm

I've seen a 400-series with REAL(no not the fake ones

) brembo calipers that were installed with adapter plates. Can't remember where they were from originally...

edit: well here it is:
http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/ ... lvo%20440/

The calipers were from Ibiza Cupra R, the caliper holders were self made. I can ask him if he still has the holders - he has sold the calipers but had the holders couple of months back.

owen080808 · Post by **owen080808** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:34 pm

i was working on a friends vr6 golf recently and noticed that it had ATE brake calipers. they were fecking huge and would be mega powerful on a 480. no idea if they would/could be made to fit but the fact that they were made by the same company did get me wondering. perhaps a set of home designed carriers could be fabricated or similar. interesting!

98kellrs · Post by **98kellrs** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:40 pm

The fixing up a carrier shouldn't be too difficult I don't think, it's more ensuring that the hub size is the same for the discs that i'm concerned about. After all what's the point having a fast car if you can't stop the thing quickly, and brakes always seem to be a neglected area, despite their obvious need!

I like the idea of using the Cupra brakes, but i'm concerned as to how expensive they'd be to get hold of!

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:01 pm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOLF-MK2-IBIZA-CU ... otohosting
Saw these for sale... Though they usually go for silly money...

98kellrs · Post by **98kellrs** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:03 pm

ooo nice, would the hubs fit the 480 then? I may be tempted by that!

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:11 pm

Well, dunno. The 4x100 is fine alright, but doubt the hub-system will fit straight on... But I'll guess you'll find out when you buy it

Ettore Bugatti · Post by **Ettore Bugatti** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:30 pm

Nice link with the Brembo brakes!

In 2002 these brake were very cheap (relative) to buy at the Seat dealer as replacement parts for the Seat Ibiza Cupra R.
Orginally only a few thousand Cupra R's were made, but the parts were sold actually a lot more

. So VW/seat raised the prices. Still one of the cheapest way to get 305x28mm brakes.

Im not sure but I think ALfa (GTV), Peugeot (406 v6 Coupe) use the same calipers too.

Other option are VW G60 brakes these are 280mmx20mm (will fit 15" wheels). Probaly needs an adapter for caliper.

I believed Volvo 240 4-pots calipers were mentioned here before, too.

Anything is possible. If you take care the following details:
- Height of the brake disc should be the same as original (hub+thickness disc)
- Preferable the thickness of the discs should be the same (not a strict rule)
- Adaptor should be made to move choose caliper out the wheelcentre and to apply offset.
- Surface of the pistons in the caliper should be same as orginal or a different brake distribution valve should be sourced

Check 300mm.de for more inspiration...

oh and did I mentioned Wilwood brakes?

Happy googling!

98kellrs · Post by **98kellrs** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:48 pm

The height of the discs needs to be the same? Surely that kinda restricts getting bigger discs? Or am I having a blonde moment?

I'll certainly get googling all that info cheers for that!

martinholmesuk · Post by **martinholmesuk** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:54 pm

bigger discs means bigger calipers then you need bigger wheel gaps from the sides to the calipers.

Ettore Bugatti · Post by **Ettore Bugatti** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:08 pm

The height of the discs needs to be the same? Surely that kinda restricts getting bigger discs? Or am I having a blonde moment?

That is not really a restriction.

I believed Audi/ VW (Golf IV/ A3) or Vauxhall (Vectra) use a 325mm disc that has about the same height (Or is it width?)as the 480. I think there's something about that on 300mm.de
Only downside is that is 5 lug so you have to rebore it. You also have to check the centre bore although that can be rebored too.

There's really no need for massive brakes on a 1000kg car.
305mm is max, about 280mm is enough. I think even that a 280mm disc with lightweight 4-pots calipers is as light as the OE.
See what kind of brakes are under trackdays VW Golf, Bini Coopers, Honda Civics and you'll understand what I mean.

You dont want to increase the unsprung weight on your car.
Big brakes are heavy (increase weight discs, caliper and adaptor) and they need heavy big wheels (17, 18* wheels are double the weight of the 14" and then we didn't talked about the weight of the tires)
Heavy wheels also have a big impact on acceleration.
And all this weight wasn't in the consideration of the engineer that designed the springs and dampers.

When considering brake performance, costs and handling.
I would for a track car choose 15" lightweight wheels with 205/50 tires and a VW Corrado brake setup. This will (IMHO) create better stopping, keeps the maintenance affordable, allows better acceleration and better handling.

Dont forget brake ducting!

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:16 pm

The previous link of mine with the cupra brakes were not brembos it seems! Just as a note if you consider buying them.

480-Pelle · Post by **480-Pelle** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:36 pm

http://www.needforspeed.co.uk/pages/home.asp

I had that link in my Favourites for ages...never shopped anything though. But they seem to have a lot of stuff...

//Pelle

98kellrs · Post by **98kellrs** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:30 am

Quick hunt around discovered these..

http://www.elkparts.com/volvo/product_i ... cts_id/276

Ã‚Â£100 odd quid for some nice grooved discs sounds alright to me! If i matched them up to some turbo calipers and pads surely they'd give a vast improvement?

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:16 pm

You don't have vented brakes on your car? Sure that would boost it up a little, and because you race, then vented are the best bet of course.

Then use the old type front discs on back, modify the carriers to get enough space for them! You can use the old rear calipers with those discs.

Ettore Bugatti · Post by **Ettore Bugatti** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:11 pm

DaKyy wrote:You don't have vented brakes on your car? Sure that would boost it up a little, and because you race, then vented are the best bet of course.

Then use the old type front discs on back, modify the carriers to get enough space for them! You can use the old rear calipers with those discs.

Are you sure?
I dont know the thickness of the dics precisely but I thought the front was 12mm thick and the rear was 9mm thick. How does the orginal caliper+ pad goes on a 3mm thicker discs?

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:28 pm

Well actually I don't know

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/ ... jarrut.jpg
But here they are - installed on a 440

The owner just said he had fitted the front discs and used the original rear calipers.

Ettore Bugatti · Post by **Ettore Bugatti** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:49 pm

OK, if he says so.

Do you happen to know if he changed the master brake cylinder for something different?

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:28 pm

Ive got corrado discs on my MR2, 280x28mm...as the back brakes

Would be great to get these fitted on a 480 with some light 4 pot callipers.
Hub bore isnt an issue, you can machine out the inside of the disc and machine a spigot ring to centre the discs on the hub.
Leave the back brakes and mildly upgrade the fronts and it'll be perfect!

VanDerGraaf · Post by **VanDerGraaf** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:51 pm

Yes but you need those so that you don't leave the runway!