What gearbox to choose?

[barlar]

I'm experiencing major clutch slipping now when I increase boost and since I drive a -88 turbo I'm planning on changing it for the newer type clutch and while I'm at it the newer type gearbox as well. My question is, what models (year) of 440/460/480 has the best clutch and gearbox? And furthermore, what's the difference between the ES-box and the turbo one?

Has anyone besides Pruen tried to do this?

Cheers,

Lars

[lee]

The later M59 gearbox is the best all round but saying that I have a very early G- plate turbo with 200k on the clock and the gear is fine. The only problem is that the diff casing has worn out causing the circlip to pop out.

The clutch. Again the eariler one is fine. The 200K beast was chipped from new and owned by a plant hire company and they used to tow mini diggers to sites hence the high mileage. The only problem with the car is that it took a clutch every 50k. I have just put a new one in.

The old style clutch new will only set you back £60 so there is nothing worth moaning about. It doesn't slip not even with the MR Sweden chip in it which has a lot of torque

[barlar]

OK, I'm afraid that I don't know what year an early G-plate is. What models have the M59 gearbox? And I'm afraid that I do have a slipping clutch and it's only got 100K on it, so it's not that worn. My hope is that the later 215mm clutch will hold this power. 440/460 (and even 480) are very common in Sweden so it shouldn't be a problem getting one. If I don't fit the later 215mm clutch I've been recommended to use a Sachs pressure plate for Clio 16V. On paper it's not very impressive, but people I've spoken say it does the trick. But if the 215mm will hold it would be to use standard stuff that's tested and you'll know will hold.

I can't say actually what power I have but with 1.2-1.3bars of boost it won't hold. And even if it would just do it the days for it'd be counted.

What do you think?

[lee]

the M59 gearbox came in production around 1992. 1993 for definate.

The Renault 5 GT Turbo owners use the old style 480 clutch as an upgrade and will hold 20psi of boost and bigger turbo's.

The 215 clutch is not as good as the older clutch. You can always buy a paddle clutch.

At 100k i'm not at all suprised the clutch has gone with 1.2bar of boost. Replace the clutch with a standard volvo one or an AP replacement and it will hold 1.2+ bar.

If you ask more from something the older consumable parts are going to wear out quicker. For example a 10 year clutch with 100k is going to go where a new one wouldn't

[VanDerGraaf]

The 215 clutch is not as good as the older clutch. You can always buy a paddle clutch.

Lee, what makes the old 200mm clutch better than the 215mm? Curious.

Won't a paddle clutch burn out after 20-40k? I had thought about one but the short lifespan bothers me.




Rohan

[V480TI]

On paper my turbo is from 1990, probably sold new 1991.
I have the M59 373 E box on it.
So introduction of that box was earlier OR someone has replaced the box (maybe broken ???) for a M59.

greetz

[VanDerGraaf]

Wonder if you can still source an M59 from Renault for less than Volvo would charge- or is it only used in Volvos?

Sorry about the last ot post but i'm still wondering why the 200mm clutch is better according to Lee?

[Jack Shit]

Well, it is a Volvo design box based on the JB5 and JC3 (or was it JC5 and JB3?) Renault gearbox. So, these will fit, Im not sure about their strenghts (although the JB5 is used on some torqy Turbodiesels). Let one the electronic drive for the speedo.

[VanDerGraaf]

Thanks Mr Shit.

[lee]

Strength wise the old style is strong in my experience. This being that a friend of friend had with his Reno Clio 172. He bought it new and within 20k the clutch went and took the gearbox with it. This was replaced under warranty just for it to happen again 2 more times. He replaced the clutch with a volvo old style as this is an upgrade for the R5GT Turbo and his car has been fine ever since. He regulary uses the car on the 1/4 and tracks so it does get a caining and is equipped with 172bhp

I also had a replacement 215 that lasted a mere 15K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My current 215 which is a volvo part has been in only 12k and you can get it hot if you want to. But its seems ok. Touch wood

As for the paddle clutch yes the life span is less and also likes the taste of your flywheel. But I made this suggestion as this is the only real option for anyone with big power. If BLAR BLAR is saying that due to his big power the clutch is unable to operate then paddle clutch is where he should be looking not 215. 215 will slip with big power. Clutch manufacters have ready made upgrades in 200 but not many do an uprated 215. RPruen had is clutch made up of different components.


My old 1990 turbo had a earily box on it which got stuck in third so I replaced it with an M59.

At the end of the day how much work do you really want to do. 200 clutch will go straight in no problems.
215 clutch you will need a new 3 piece clutch, flywheel, flywheel and you may need to change the ECU. This is due to the 215 fitting differently on the flywheel. The only way around this to to get the flywheel clutch mounting bolts drilled but this isn't that easy as you need to make sure that it is properly balanced or you could end up with bigger problems than a slipping clutch

[VanDerGraaf]

Interesting advice mate, i had noticed that there are loads of upgraded 200mm clutches but little for 215, as you say due to the popularity of 200mm for Renault 5/clio etc.

Shame the 200mm isn't retrofittable into the later cars without flywheel/ecu change etc.

[VanDerGraaf]

The 200K beast was chipped from new and owned by a plant hire company and they used to tow mini diggers to sites hence the high mileage. The only problem with the car is that it took a clutch every 50k. I have just put a new one in.

What a fooking life for a chipped Turbo! It pulled the short straw at the dealers!

Then again Lee you've got it now so i guess it's ended up ok?
What's the performance like?

[pol]

Surely there are stronger later renault gearboxes that would also fit. My latest M59 has done me proud so far and only cost £30. I think it was from a G/H reg turbo. I wouldn't bother trying to repair gearbox carings personally. I have tried it and failed miserably. Problem was you can't tell until you have it back on the car and it breaks again!

pol

[VanDerGraaf]

Surely there are stronger later renault gearboxes that would also fit.
pol

You're right, but which? Don't even know how to start going about finding out...?

[pol]

Maybe a search for renault forums, 5gtt's megane, etc... Maybe Someone there may know?

pol

[barlar]

Allright, good info and thanks everyone! I really mean it. But you must think that I'm a real twat for my small type-o. When I said my clutch would be fine I meant to type 10k (10000 km) my bad. And this 10k has been with standard settings, so it should be quite allright I think.

So if I understand everyone's suggestion correctly I should go for a stronger pressure plate for the 200mm? Making the 215mm fit shouldn't be a huge problem I think. A few times a week I'm usually doing work in an excellent work shop with good machines, and several flywheels have been balanced and I really think it will work fine. But then again, it's wasted time if this clutch is worse than the 200, and I'm not a fan of that.

I don't think I have some huge power in my car but the problem still remains with a slipping clutch so something has to be done. I hope I can live without a paddle clutch (I think I know which type you mean, in Sweden we call them sinter) because my experience of them is that they're not nearly as "driveable" as ordinary.

What type of upgrades do you guys have?

Cheers,

Lars

[chris1roll]

Could be same as my problem, warped flywheel.

Edd machined his, so its not too hard to sort out, once you have the thing off.

[catgroom]

From what Mr.Pruen said to me,and what I was going to install with Chris's help,was a Clio Williams clutch plate,new Volvo cover,and a Sachs carbon fibre release bearing.All for £85

You ,might like to try that if you're running extra boost.Mind you that may be just a little too aggresive a clutch take-up for you.Not as vicious as a paddle clutch though I hear!!!!!

[Brasco]

From what Mr.Pruen said to me,and what I was going to install with Chris's help,was a Clio Williams clutch plate,new Volvo cover,and a Sachs carbon fibre release bearing.All for £85

I thought I remembered someone saying the Clio Williams clutch was the best upgrade... in fact, I thought that was the best clutch in terms of taking power, that you could have on the 480T? Or is it just the best for a later turbo?

Groomus, are you switching to manual? Have I missed something?

[JohnTurbo]

williams = 200mm. 182 clio = 215. Rich has one of these, same as laguna.