Clutch: Diaphragm not strong enough??

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:32 pm

When I bought my engine donor, th eprevious owner told me it had a new clutch fitted less than 1000 miles ago, and it had cost in the region of Â£600.
For that price I assumed that would have been a volvo job.

On Saturday when setting the boost with mr rpruens electronic control, the clutch started slipping at around 3,500 - 4000 rpm

Now, the car is fine in normal driving, changing gear etc, and the normal test for the clutch (4th or 5th at 30mph, floor it, should pull up slowly without slipping) comes back negative, but when i hit 3,500 rpm at high boost (overtaking) then the clutch lets go

This sounds to me like the diaphragm spring is not strong enough for the torque of the engine.

What do you think?

pol · Post by **pol** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:31 pm

It's probably the earlier type clutch? I have suspicions about the spings on them as a friends one is doing similar and has had a supposed recent clutch change. Either that or oil?

pol

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:45 pm

I didn't know there were two types of clutch, other than standard for ES and uprated for the Turbo.

I thought he probably saved himself 40 quid by putting in a non volvo clutch, cos i have read on here that the r5 boys use the volvo ones because they are the strongest. I'm (only) running half in the red and 4 degrees of ignition advance so it certainly isn't more than 145hp, which the volvo clutch must surely be able to cope with?

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:54 pm

so there are:

Turbo:
part no 3447491 for up to chassis no 567599
part no 3450830 for after chassis no 567600

my engine has chassis no 564103

anyone know if the later one will fit?

JohnTurbo · Post by **JohnTurbo** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:52 pm

if ever i need a new clutch,i'll get a 'fast road' one from www.needforspeed.co.uk

jr

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:12 pm

I need to have this issue discussed fully, as I too am under the impression that the original Volvo kit is the best for the 480 - if there are other clutches available for the 480 which are _definately known_ to be grippier and better for a performance 480, then let's hear about it, as I'm about to get a new clutch for mine and need the best for cars running high boost

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:22 pm

if ever i need a new clutch,i'll get a 'fast road' one from www.needforspeed.co.uk

looking at that they have two listed.

one for the ES all years, and
one for turbo up to 91,

but both part numbers are the same!

there is no clutch on there for a 91-on turbo. (i'm guessing this is a stronger version?)

Your cars newer than 91 isn't it john?

http://www.needforspeed.co.uk/pages/sbv ... Type=CBD01

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:43 pm

in addition to this, euro car parts don't have a genuine kit listed for the earlier type.....and the genuine ones are more expensive than the black diamond one.

gsf car parts ones are too cheap. guess they are 3rd party. not worth it.

all the above list different part numbers for the two types, guess I shall have to speak to my friendly volvo dealers and work out if they are interchangeable. if not, i may well go for a black diamond one.

pol · Post by **pol** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:50 pm

There are two types for the turbo, earlier than '92 and '92 or later. The later one is about twice the price of the earlier one. I dont see whay a later one for the turbo shouldn't fit on any 480 and should also be the best / strongest. See GSF car parts for the best prices I could find. Anyway, i've just fitted an earlier M59 gerarbox from an H plate which would have used the earlier clutch, to my '92 with the newer clutch with no problems if that helps.

pol

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:07 am

That does, proper volvo later version it is then

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:08 pm

Actually no...

Later type clutch is, and looks much stronger, with springs between the friction disc too... however, it will not fit an earlier car because the flywheel is different. can't just change the flywheel as well (not that i could afford to) because the timing teeth are different.....

Strangely enough, my clutch hasn't slipped since monday, and i have been giving it some serious shit, with no problems.

Next question: Is it possible for a clutch to require "bedding in" a la brake pads? i'm guessing it could have needed to "shape" to any small deviations in the surface of the flywheel?

rpruen · Post by **rpruen** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:28 am

chris1roll wrote:Actually no...

Later type clutch is, and looks much stronger, with springs between the friction disc too... however, it will not fit an earlier car because the flywheel is different. can't just change the flywheel as well (not that i could afford to) because the timing teeth are different.....

Strangely enough, my clutch hasn't slipped since monday, and i have been giving it some serious shit, with no problems.

Next question: Is it possible for a clutch to require "bedding in" a la brake pads? i'm guessing it could have needed to "shape" to any small deviations in the surface of the flywheel?

I have thought about that, and if you change the flywheel, then it could be made to work, you would need a blue ECU. I may soon be able to change the orange ECU to think it's a blue one, but not just yet.

Yes the clutch would need to bed-in, but it should happen fairly quickly. I wonder if some copper grease got on it, when it was fitted? That would take ages to burn off.

Richard

Murf · Post by **Murf** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:34 pm

so you guys are getting big power increases without MBC's and using the standard ECU??

spread the wealth guys, is it just changing the ecu settings using variable resistors instead of the fixed resistors on the circuit board?

are you planning on letting us know how you did it and have some sort of guide to which resistors you changed and their values, including base values and safe settings that wont blow the engine up?
if not, do we each just post you our ECU's one at a time for you to mod for us??

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:04 am

Richard isn't allowed to tell you because of bosch's non disclosure agreement, and i don't have a clue! I know i have a couple of twiddly things, and the long one turns the boost up.
and my older ECU now has the newer software in it, so it doesn't kick so much, its smoother and faster.
I paid for mine with 9 hours of swearing under richards car.....stupid later type engine mount, and i get the feeling my car is going to be a guinea pig to test the early ECU production models before they go out.

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:06 am

at the moment mine is running with pots that have the potential to blow up the engine, so i tend to leave well alone.

rpruen · Post by **rpruen** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:45 am

Murf wrote:so you guys are getting big power increases without MBC's and using the standard ECU??

spread the wealth guys, is it just changing the ecu settings using variable resistors instead of the fixed resistors on the circuit board?

are you planning on letting us know how you did it and have some sort of guide to which resistors you changed and their values, including base values and safe settings that wont blow the engine up?
if not, do we each just post you our ECU's one at a time for you to mod for us??

As Chris says. I can't tell you. Sorry. I did start out wanting to make this public, but it;s not possible.

It's not as simple as just adding some resistors. There are parts that need to be changed.

As far as safe settings go. I have them for blue ECUs, and as soon as I check with Chris's ECU, for orange ones. I am working on a dash mounted boost control that goes from standard to what's safe. I am also providing a way to put all the settings back to standard (for MOT etc.)

Richard

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:16 am

Talking about MOT's... 29th of september.....

480_rocket · Post by **480_rocket** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:20 am

MOT time for me is the 2nd september !! dodgy handbrake and wobbling steering!

rpruen · Post by **rpruen** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:39 pm

MOT shouldn't be a problem for pre 91 cars with the mod to the ECU. It could be a problem for post 92 though. I'll have something to put it back to standard ready. That at least is relativley simple.

Also thinking about if you put the car into a garage for work, and you don't what them doing an enthusisatic 'test drive'

Richard

rpruen · Post by **rpruen** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:27 pm

Right....

I have now got to the point where the newer type Volvo clutch is not good enough. Did anyone come up with an answer to this?

Thanks

Richard