Millers Gear oil: Fully Synthetic or High Synthetic?

Both manual and automatic transmission are discussed here, including the clutch!

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muddyfox470
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Post by muddyfox470 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:51 pm

Ettore Bugatti wrote:Strange thing that the higher GL rating isn't compatible for lower ratings.

What gearbox do you have, M5X?

This is btw the spec sheet of the TransELF TRJ
http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/ ... 1/1075.pdf
Safe for brass synchromesh rings, 75W-80, and GL4+

Brass isn't bronze, right?
correct thats why im not going to take the chance, I'll stick with GL-4 it's all very confusing and i've had enough of this research malarky, i can't say what i've put is true so read it at face value.

cheers
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martinholmesuk
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Post by martinholmesuk » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:00 pm

How about using JOE-90 that's meant to be top stuff.
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Iroll480
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Post by Iroll480 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:09 pm

From Wikipedia:
Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc; the proportions of zinc and copper can be varied to create a range of brasses with varying properties.[1] In comparison, bronze is principally an alloy of copper and tin.[2] Despite this distinction, some types of brasses are called bronzes. Brass is a substitutional alloy. It is used for decoration for its bright gold-like appearance; for applications where low friction is required such as locks, gears, bearings, ammunition, and valves; for plumbing and electrical applications; and extensively in musical instruments such as horns and bells for its acoustic properties.

Bronze is typically 88% copper and 12% tin.[4] Alpha bronze consists of the alpha solid solution of tin in copper. Alpha bronze alloys of 4–5% tin are used to make coins, springs, turbines and blades.

The main thing with the gear oil is, that it shouldn't have sulpher additives in it. This sulpher containing additives will destroy on the long run the copper containing (Brass, Bronze) components in the gearbox. So if it's save for Brass it''s also save for Bronze.

So why is GL-5 so bad?

Oils are made from base stocks, refined and then mixed with additives to improve their performance. GL-5's incompatibility is due to the extreme pressure (EP) wear additives. To give the gear oil its EP rating, it's easiest to add a sulpher based additive like MoS2 (molybdenum disulphide) but the sulphur present in the oil (you can smell it) is responsible for eating the copper alloy used to make the synchros.
Last edited by Iroll480 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ettore Bugatti
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Post by Ettore Bugatti » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:33 pm

Thanks for the clarification!
Volvo 480 ES, chassis 283, dec 1999-aug 2005
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Rover Mini 1000, june 2009-
Peugeot 106 1.4 Roland Garros, oct 2011-

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JohnTurbo
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Post by JohnTurbo » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:11 pm

We're talking phosphor bronze though remember!
I'm unsure now if that makes any odds or not.

Also alloying is not just mixing. Remember that iron reacts with water, but stainless contains mainly iron and does not.

I just like complicating things!
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Iroll480
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Post by Iroll480 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:45 pm

The phosphor makes the bronze more resistant against chemical corrossion from the sulpher, but not for the full 100%. So on the long run the sulpher will eat away the copper in the bronze. It also prevents oxidation during the melting of the alloy and helps the liquifidation during the melting, so it's easier to cast.
Like in stainless steel the chromium part makes it more resistant against oxidation, but it's NOT 100%rustfree. Better not leave a nail for example laying on your stainless sink, if the nail rusts so will your stainless sink!

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Ettore Bugatti
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Post by Ettore Bugatti » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:19 pm

I also made some enquiries.

the Trans ELF TRJ 75W-80 is replaced with the TransELF NFJ and the TransELF TRX is succeded with NFP and finally the TRZ is replaced with the NFJ.

The NFJ (TRJ) is suitable for low loaded gearboxes.
The NFP/TRX is developed for heavy loaded gearboxes and is not mixable with other oils.
Finally the TRZ was a full synthetic oil, but the NFJ is a mineral oil.

All these oils are suitable for copper/zinc alloys (aka brass) synchromesh rings.

Are the synchromesh rings in the box brass or bronze? (I think brass, probably)

edit: Anyway the Total/Elf application engineer recommended TransELF TRX now NFP for the Volvo 400 series.
Volvo 480 ES, chassis 283, dec 1999-aug 2005
Nissan Micra 1.0 Nismo, feb 2006-
Rover Mini 1000, june 2009-
Peugeot 106 1.4 Roland Garros, oct 2011-

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