Gear linkage / leakage

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Alan 480
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Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:54 pm

Daft question, when at lamda sensor today found i had a 'fair amount' of gear oil in the plastic catch tray, ie it was lipping full :(

the seal on the LHS drive shaft is weeping a little but didn't think it was that bad! the corrugations are dry and only a small amount of oil/dampness on top of sub-frame, nothing inside. I suspect it got damged at a clutch change?

I have cleaned up the whole of gearbox so will see if this betrays the source even the area aroundthe LHS bellows gearbox cover doesn't seem wet around the bolts either.

I wonder if the linkage has any sort of seal where it passes up into the gearbox? HBOL doesn't really show anything as I guess gearboxes either work or don't...

I don't mind topping up engine oil as it is designed to be replaced, but gear oil is a real PITA with the air con tank in the way, and topped up to the level of the fill plug.. TBH I can't recall if the front was on the ramps when I topped it up, i doubt it as was reversed into the garage so been level at that time.
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by jifflemon » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:08 pm

They're known for leaking from the seal in the linkage.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22

Alan 480
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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:45 am

jifflemon wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:08 pm
They're known for leaking from the seal in the linkage.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22
thanks fro swift reply, looks like next on the 'to-do' list, is it feasible without getting drenched , probably not :(
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2 (1 x Normal, 1 x 'Celebration' ? ), C30 1.8ES, SS1

Alan 480
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Re: Gearbox leakage not at linkage

Post by Alan 480 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:54 pm

Alan 480 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:45 am
jifflemon wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:08 pm
They're known for leaking from the seal in the linkage.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/febi-bilstein- ... 38&sr=8-22
thanks for swift reply, looks like next on the 'to-do' list, is it feasible without getting drenched , probably not :(
well did some cleaning of the 'offending area'
nope it is NOT coming from the linkage and for info I looked at the part linked to above and it is a cunning design that allows replacement WITHOUT draing the oil!! also found some videos for anybody else.

update
The oil seems to be coming from the area where the large 'bellows' / 'gaiter' meets the gearbox casting.

So cleaned it all down and left it over night, more oil appeared so more wiping and stuffed some tissue into the edges of the steel rim to see if coming from front area or rear area, checked the next day, both bits dry!!!!

call it a no score draw?

so car back in use and will check again, added 50-100ml whilst under the car.

update 2
bu88er, more oil today after about 15miles, deffo coming from the area where the bellows meets the gearbox, and there is a dribble at the drive sahft seal. I reckon when the clutch was changed they cocked it up (I think I've seen receipt for a clutch?) maybe not but a comment in Oct 1999 mentions 'inner drive seal leaking' at 32000miles...

so rather than pull the whole shaft thos week I've tried a section of 'o' ring pressed into the small gap between the casting and the steel holder, not ideal but if it slows the leak to a dribble then I count it as a small win. I don't like an oil leak especially a gearbox, engine is 'OK' as it's meant to be changed and in marine circles not unusual to drain some and top-up 'on the run' as can't shut the engine down crossing the pacific?
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2 (1 x Normal, 1 x 'Celebration' ? ), C30 1.8ES, SS1

Alan 480
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Re: Gear box / drive shaft linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:49 pm

Any suggestions as to best place to buy the 'bellows' for the inner end of left drive shaft?
I still have oil dribbling from the shaft and cant see where the lip seal is fitted? I assume the lip runs 'inboard' of the bearing?

there is a wee bit of a wiggle on the bearing/rubber etc.

does the inner tripod easily pull off, (after circlip removed) and how does the bellows go back over the bearing/shaft?

any photos are welcome
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by jifflemon » Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:10 pm

The boot is easily obtained from evil bay.

However....
Alan 480 wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:49 pm
does the inner tripod easily pull off, (after circlip removed) and how does the bellows go back over the bearing/shaft?
Absolutely not! Job for a press I'm afraid! (maybe you could improvise with a vice and drifts, but I had a press so used it.

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:50 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:10 pm
The boot is easily obtained from evil bay.

However....
Alan 480 wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:49 pm
does the inner tripod easily pull off, (after circlip removed) and how does the bellows go back over the bearing/shaft?
Absolutely not! Job for a press I'm afraid! (maybe you could improvise with a vice and drifts, but I had a press so used it.
OK, that's decided that then!!

I'll remove the whole thing, clean it all up and see if I can get it sitting 'better' against the housing

It can't do much harm and we have some nice long thin 'o' rings at work to trap under and (try) make a better seal.

The leakage at shaft is less than the inboard end and when apart on the bench I'll see if something can be 'improvised' :wink:
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:02 pm

Hi Alan,

Sorry to hear about your oil leakage woes.

The problem with using a press pulling the tripode is you have 3ft of shaft to accommodate downwards - no good for my bench press. You need a tower press with legs.

I have used a three-leg puller in the past, but BOY it's tight.

Image

The zip tie is just a second pair of hands getting things it started. It's not load bearing. The shaft does have a nice divot in the end for the puller spike.

Have you put the three-bolt metal retention ring on a known flat surface and checked for runout.... even the slightest distortion will mean an uneven clamping force on the boot to gearbox. Is it even the correct ring? There are many Renault versions of this design.

Nothing wrong with a delicate smear of RTV :wink:
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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:37 pm

Jay-Kay-Em wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:02 pm
Hi Alan,

Sorry to hear about your oil leakage woes.

The problem with using a press pulling the tripode is you have 3ft of shaft to accommodate downwards - no good for my bench press. You need a tower press with legs.

I have used a three-leg puller in the past, but BOY it's tight.

Image

The zip tie is just a second pair of hands getting things it started. It's not load bearing. The shaft does have a nice divot in the end for the puller spike.

Have you put the three-bolt metal retention ring on a known flat surface and checked for runout.... even the slightest distortion will mean an uneven clamping force on the boot to gearbox. Is it even the correct ring? There are many Renault versions of this design.

Nothing wrong with a delicate smear of RTV :wink:
Thanks for the photo, paints a thousand words, I think that the seal might have been nipped by ham fisted revious repair shop :-(

not sure how flat it is, maybe they have been overzealous and bent it?

and yes RTV might work and/or after removing the 'piston' o-ring add a few layers of PTFE tape to marginally increase the diameter and re-fit the o-ring and it will hold it all in place until can push back into gear-box.

it might be that there isn't any o-ring? certainly the leakage rate is less since I added one / tucked under the steel lip

do you hav eany more photos of teh seal area and the outer 'lip seal'?
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by nicklee » Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:00 pm

Not sure if this is entirely relevant, as it sounds as though your leak is where boot meets diff, but I had an ongoing, infuriating, gear oil leak from this driveshaft which started at around 150,000 miles. I changed the boot which seemed to help for a bit, but the issue was general wear on the shaft which meant that the bearing and/or seal at the narrow end of the boot had failed. It didn't leak much/at all when the car was stationary, but as soon as it got moving and the oil got hot it would leak. In the end I had to replace the driveshaft with an SKF part, but no worries since then and I'm now on 197,000 miles :D Only engine oil leaks lol.

If your car is the 2.0 then I think you can still get an SKF part, although it's not cheap: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/skf/14938 - but at least it's available! Nothing out there for the 1.7 n/a as far as I can see...

Good luck, hopefully it's just the boot seal. As you say, gear oil leak is a real pain - plus it stinks!
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Alan 480
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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:11 pm

nicklee wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:00 pm
Not sure if this is entirely relevant, as it sounds as though your leak is where boot meets diff,
Good luck, hopefully it's just the boot seal. As you say, gear oil leak is a real pain - plus it stinks!
well I can cope with the 'dribble' from the shaft (I think)

I don't mind engine oil leaks as it is a 'consumable' :-)
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by jifflemon » Tue Nov 15, 2022 3:40 pm

Alan 480 wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:37 pm

Thanks for the photo, paints a thousand words, I think that the seal might have been nipped by ham fisted revious repair shop :-(

not sure how flat it is, maybe they have been overzealous and bent it?

and yes RTV might work and/or after removing the 'piston' o-ring add a few layers of PTFE tape to marginally increase the diameter and re-fit the o-ring and it will hold it all in place until can push back into gear-box.

it might be that there isn't any o-ring? certainly the leakage rate is less since I added one / tucked under the steel lip

do you have any more photos of teh seal area and the outer 'lip seal'?
You'd have difficulty bending the seal....

Image

Image

The Bottom seal is thick and pressed flat by that metal retainer, which seals against the side of the box.

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:20 pm

Jeff

good man for photos

how the heck can that let oil leak out, I thought it was a 'piston fit' into the housing, not a 'face seal'

I'm pretty sure the three bolts are tight!

I wonder if that is the lip seal on the shaft is missing on mine as I can see a metal section, (i think it's metal) and it rotates WITH the shaft
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by jifflemon » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:24 pm

will do more photos tomorrow but there's a roller bearing that's pressed onto the shaft that the outer end of the boot clamps onto.

EDIT: here's the bearing

Image

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:28 pm

Thanks

I'll have another look but from memory it doesn't look as if there is any chamfered section, just square to the drive shaft.

I'll maybe try and get a photo from above to save putting back on ramps

also the boot can 'wobble' around on the shaft/bearing which i didn't think felt 'correct'
Alan

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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by nicklee » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:34 pm

From memory i'd say my bearing didn't look exactly like that either - but basically this was the part that had failed and was causing the leak on my car. Alan, the 'wobble' you describe sounds familiar, and wear on that bearing seemed to be the root cause of the issue. If I recall correctly the oil would dribble out at this point and pool on the wishbone, gradually destroying my bushes :D
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Re: Gear linkage / leakage

Post by Alan 480 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:36 pm

nicklee wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:34 pm
the 'wobble' you describe sounds familiar, and wear on that bearing seemed to be the root cause of the issue. If I recall correctly the oil would dribble out at this point and pool on the wishbone, gradually destroying my bushes :D
I'd accept the dribble, it means that the sub-frame won't rust :wink:
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2 (1 x Normal, 1 x 'Celebration' ? ), C30 1.8ES, SS1

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