Electric windows and mirrors not working

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zapcity
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Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:54 pm

Hi all,

Looking for some advice as a 480 rookie.

My electric windows and mirrors don't work. They had been working fine for previous owner, but now they've stopped.

Could you point me towards the obvious places to start diagnosis, so I don't waste a load of time.

Thanks.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by Alan 480 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:54 am

both sides?

fuse first

relay second?

then under the cubby hole, all wires go into a big bunch see if been disturbed

finally into the doors
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

zapcity
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Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:01 pm

Thanks Alan.

Just found a 1989 owners manual online (guess there are not many differences to a 1993 model) as mine is in the post from the previous owner.

Looking at the fuses is says no. 24 (30amp) covers power windows and power mirrors.

Couldn't be that simple could it!

Can't wait to get home and try.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

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dragonflyjewels
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by dragonflyjewels » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:46 pm

I have a 93, my handbook says fuse 27 for the windows and sunroof (30 amp) and 4 for the door mirrors (3 amp), so if windows and mirrors have both died and the sunroof still works it's more likely to be a relay or loose connection.
On the other hand I've found things on different fuses to where they are supposed to be - someone tinkering around in the past ! Try all the 30 amp fuses perhaps ?
Sylvia

Snazzy - 1993 Paris Blue ES red dipstick 2.0i bought 2001
Lethal Lily - 1991 White Turbo
Paris the Unicorn - 1991 Paris Edition
hubby has
Sven - 1994 Racing Green GT
Evil Eva - 1992 Paris Blue Turbo

no previous 480s - can't bear to sell any

eye of ra
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by eye of ra » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:13 pm

For your age of car if you have 26 fuses in your fuse box then the windows use fuse 5 and the electric mirrors use 24 (15 for mirror heating). If you have 32 fuses in the box (which is more likely) windows and mirrors are as Sylvia says (and 25 for mirror heating). You need to got back a few years for them to share fuse 24.

However what they both share is their Ground Point which is described as being located on the "LH A Pillar". The small hiccup is that the diagrams show a LHD vehicle and I can’t at the moment find if its different on a RHD.
Last edited by eye of ra on Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

zapcity
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:41 pm

Thanks all. Will take a look asap.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

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brinkie
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by brinkie » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:53 pm

The door mirror switches and window switches are in the centre console next to the handbrake lever.
Push the end of the lever off, then slide the plastic part holding the switches over the lever (careful not to break it) and examine the switches and its connectors. You can try and measure if voltage appears at the pins of the connectors.
For electrical connections, see page 70 of
http://volvo480.myds.me/v480eu/downloads/91wiring.pdf
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:25 am

Thanks Robert for the advice.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
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Location: Derbyshire

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by eye of ra » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:32 am

Note that that book is for the 26 fuse box if you have 32 fuses the fuse numbers are different.

Page 76 shows the mirror and rear window heating which share the same fuse but not ground.

Page 78 shows electric mirrors.

So if your rear window heater works and you have lost both heating (assuming they worked before, mine have never worked) and movement of mirrors as well as the windows the ground is a common link (G-C1).

I believe this is the ground location G-C1. Not going to be easy to get to with the dash in place.

Image

There is another one in the same place on the R/H side of my RHD car that I still can’t find a mention of in the book that may be relevant.

Please read my last post again as it has been edited as the mirrors use 2 fuses.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:31 am

Thanks EoR.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Tue May 08, 2018 12:57 pm

OK. So yesterday was the first day I could dedicate to having a look at the window/mirror issue.

First off the fusebox.

Let's just say the fusebox diagram is confusing especially when its the first time you've seen one and you're in the footwell looking in a mirror, plus what was fitted/not fitted didn't match the diagram.

This is what I was confronted with: -
Fuses 4 (mirror x 2) and 27 (window lifts/moon roof) were both missing.
A big orange thing (says 3 on the body) fitted in pos 23 (normally unused?)
A 3amp fitted in pos 3 (normally unused?) - pulled the fuse and nothing died I could notice.
A 5amp fitted in pos 5 (normally unused?) and marked radio - forgot to pull this one and see what happened.

Strangely, I plugged my tyre inflator into the cigarette lighter socket (not aux socket as we are in 1994!) to pump up the tyres. One worked ok but the second wouldn't. Also noticed that the instrumnets and radio were dead. Checked fuse pos 21 and it had popped. Replaced temporarily with a 10amp as didnt have a 7.5amp. Have ordered a job lot of fuses from eBay for next to nothing!

So because I had fuse pos 4 and pos 20 missing it was difficult to work out the orientation of the fuse box and diagram.
I got it eventually as position 20 doesn't have the cutouts between the contacts for the fuse blades to fit into (as shown below): -

Image

So first off, a trip to Eurocar parts to buy fuses. All mine are mini-fuses not standard.

On return, I fitted a 5amp to pos 4 et voila working mirrors!
Then followed a 30amp fuse in pos 27 and nothing. Shame.

This is what my fusebox looks like now: -
Image
Image

I did pull the fusebox and checked the wiring loom. Everything looked and felt intact.

So logically, if the mirrors are working and both systems share the common ground G-C1 then this ground is OK.
Then the window fault must lie somewhere in the window circuit.
Image
Image
Taken from: - http://volvo480.myds.me/v480eu/downloads/91wiring.pdf

Next step is as suggested by Robert. Will measure voltage on the switches and go from there. If no voltage to the switches could the CEM relay be faulty?
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
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Location: Derbyshire

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by eye of ra » Tue May 08, 2018 3:54 pm

zapcity wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 12:57 pm
So logically, if the mirrors are working and both systems share the common ground G-C1 then this ground is OK.
Then the window fault must lie somewhere in the window circuit.
Yes.
zapcity wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 12:57 pm
If no voltage to the switches could the CEM relay be faulty?
Yes but could also be a wiring fault or the connector marked C70/D26.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Tue May 08, 2018 8:25 pm

Thought I'd post a picture of my relay box.

Image

Didn't look like it had ever been opened.

Not many fitted and only one position with a relay holder unpopulated (Relay D), but I guess this is all good as D is for the B18 engine aux water pump?

Anybody have a diagram of what the functions are? I know the tall one is for the pop ups.

Also, when disconnecting the battery I didn't have to renter a radio code. Anyone know why this is?

Thanks for any info.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by eye of ra » Wed May 09, 2018 12:19 pm

For a 1993 car it will be

A – Headlights
B – Supply Line 75a
C – Supply Line 15
D – Aux Water Pump (If fitted)
E – Front Fog Lights
F – Popups
G – Dimmed-dip (GB only) (Either bridged or a relay used for rear fogs elsewhere)
K – Supply Line 75b
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Wed May 09, 2018 12:23 pm

Thanks EOR.

Great info.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by eye of ra » Mon May 28, 2018 4:24 pm

Reading another tread you are still having window problems there is a way of checking the CEM without swapping it.

Disconnect the connectors A and B.

Image

Put jumpers between the following connectors on the sockets.

A1(Grey/White) – B8 (Brown)
B12 (White/Red) – B14 (White/Black) Be careful as B12 is a permanent live.

I don’t have a CEM III but assume they are numbered if not I’ll find and post a picture.

The passenger window should now function using its switch (Drivers should go down but won’t go back up, connect B11 (Brown/Grey) – B8 (Brown) if you want to check both windows).

If they don’t work you have a wiring fault and CEM is probably ok, if they do work CEM is faulty.

***This will only work if your CEM looks like the above picture (1991 onwards) older cars use a different CEM which the windows don’t use and therefore they don’t have the luxury of Auto-Down or Closing with the Key. From 1993 the fuse numbers changed for the windows but the circuit design didn’t and as far as I can see neither did the wiring for the windows (except said fuses).***

***Only attempt if you feel you have the skills (you don’t want to damage the CEM) and you do so at your own risk.***
Last edited by eye of ra on Tue May 29, 2018 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Mon May 28, 2018 4:29 pm

Thanks EoR. Much appreciated.

Will give it a try.
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

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brinkie
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Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by brinkie » Tue May 29, 2018 8:47 am

Please do note there are subtle and less subtle differences in the electrics throughout the evolution of the Volvo 480.

The model years 1986, 1987 and 1988 had changes all over them (as they had a number of design flaws), in model year 1989 the electrical system design became a bit more stable but around January 1991 (with Phase 2) it got a major revamp with a completely different CEM. Another redesign followed in model year 1993, to harmonize the 480 electrics with the 440/460, I guess to cut cost.

Window regulators are controlled by relays in the CEM, but what they actually do is supply power to the switch, and the posistion of the switch will decide whether the window stays put, goes up or goes down. Through some clever wiring and a couple of relays the CEM may control the window by itself, because the direction of the current controls the direction of the motor.
Also, the mirror switches are accumulating all kinds of dirt in them (the window switches to a lesser extent because of their design), it is possible to take them out, take them apart and clean them properly. Only be careful not to damage the plastic sheet where the switches are mounted in, because it breaks very easily.

By the way, you should not put fuses in places where they aren't supposed to be, otherwise you might introduce very strange electronic problems. And you are not the only one who blew the 7.5A fuse with an air pump connected to the cigarette lighter, mine also got a 10A fuse instead :lol:
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by eye of ra » Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 am

Yes I probably should have made it clearer it is for CEM III only, now done.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

zapcity
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:01 pm
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Electric windows and mirrors not working

Post by zapcity » Tue May 29, 2018 1:05 pm

Thanks gents. Think I have some good info. now to get started with the diagnosis. Out with the multimeter!!

I spent 1/2 hour realigning values and checking continuity on the fuses as per the fuse box diagram, so at least it's back to a known point.

I think a previous owner used the spares to fill in regardless of the value!!

Not sure what (if anything) the 5A fuse in 5 does (marked radio). Maybe it was used for an aftermarket head unit supply previously?

Image
1994 480GT - arrived!!
XC60 and XC70 for the daily grind.
C70 Coupé Convertible for the sunny days. Should sell it but can't!

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