Alternator trouble shooting

[Alan 480]

Wifes car just died
diddly squat change in voltage from alternator when changed from ign off to idle to 2000rpm. new battery (ie nicked from SS1) got it going the half mile home.

something niggles me that if the warning light doesn't come on when ign is turned on then this prevents the alternator generating, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I did put a new regulator in about 7 years ago so whether that has died or just no brushes left (I'll look in the morning)

any thoughts appreciated

[jifflemon]

Ah..... my speciality subject!

Yes, if the dash light doesn't come on, that could well be the source of all your problems.

Take the small wire off the regulator and put it to earth. with the Ignition on, the dash light should light up.

If it does, you've a duff regulator. If it doesn't, swap the dash light out.

I've a whole heap of other testing that you can do, but start with that!

[Alan 480]

I'll have a go at that , I was also going to take the wire from alternator through a bulb to live side of battery as that is on ign side of circuit and see if it lights then check voltage (assuming I get some illumination) other than that need a new reggy, or brushes and / or slip rings worn away

wiring is on HBOL page 12.50

I managed to check out the diodes on the SS1 alternator control pack as it is an 'open-frame' so confirmed one of the three diodes was up the pole , so only getting two thirds charge fairly easy to fit new diodes, just needed a BIG soldering iron but these are 'sealed'

update ,

went to jury rig a bulb from red/brown wire across to battery and found the wire broken off at the connector, old age fatigue etc taken it's toll or is that cos it's an easy fix . .. . . .

all I need to do now is convince SWAMBO to check all lights come on when ign at first position, she commented 'whats that red one' ie the ruddy oil light!!

can you wire up 100dB klaxons if warning lights come on

PS to update, should the 'handbrake/brake fluid' light also be on when ign at first notch , then go out when engine running ?
it also was 'missing' when red/brown on alternator was broken then re-appeared when fixed
or is this another clue that my dash-board has a number of 'wayward' connections

[jifflemon]

Dash lights are light traffic lights!

Red is stop
Ambers are proceed with caution!

[Alan 480]

Dash lights are light traffic lights!

Red is stop

Ambers are proceed with caution!

providing that they get looked at by SWAMBO !!!

[eye of ra]

PS to update, should the 'handbrake/brake fluid' light also be on when ign at first notch , then go out when engine running ?
it also was 'missing' when red/brown on alternator was broken then re-appeared when fixed
or is this another clue that my dash-board has a number of 'wayward' connections

Yes they should come on and go out.

The test is part of the same circuit and they (washer fluid is also tested) should go out once the alternator starts charging (car has started) unless levels are low of course, so without the red/brown wire the test won’t work.

They would have still come on if the levels were low.

EDIT

Just reread your question and handbrake (P) is not included in test and should only light when handbrake is on.

[Alan 480]

Just reread your question and handbrake (P) is not included in test and should only light when handbrake is on.

OK some more digging required I think . . . .

I know that the SS1 has a fluid level indication but not seen a switch on the top of the 480, maybe only certain models? (hand book says handbrake/fluid) ?

of course it could be that the handbrake switch is also goosed, never looked today when doing some other tidying I know the low level for washer fluid will NEVER come on as the bulb was removed soon after we got the car as it was a bit random, ie it came on regardless of fluid level and as I check fluids every week then no harm was done by it's removal

[jifflemon]

ah.... we're talking about the SS1 here? I'm going to guess its running something ford'ish under the bonnet?

You'll be running a classic alternator if so, either the Lucas A127,or a Bosch 55 (in, I suspect, the LH position).

very simple alternator, was a dream to rebuild either! Plus there's PLENTY of scope if you ever need a chunkier alternator!

[eye of ra]

I only have one handbook to look at and I know the warning light layout did change a little over the years but the wiring diagrams for the battery charge, handbrake, brake fluid and washer fluid didn’t change (although I am missing one supplement).

Picture is from a 1989 manual.



5, 17 and 18 should come on then go out once the car has started and 16 should only light when the handbrake is on.

For info 4 and 19 should also come on but are different circuits and go out for different reasons.

The washer fluid sensor is not on the top of the bottle, sadly, it’s on the front and a bi*ch to get at.

[Alan 480]

ah.... we're talking about the SS1 here? I'm going to guess its running something ford'ish under the bonnet?

You'll be running a classic alternator if so, either the Lucas A127,or a Bosch 55 (in, I suspect, the LH position).

very simple alternator, was a dream to rebuild either! Plus there's PLENTY of scope if you ever need a chunkier alternator!

nope 480 alternator was bust but you are correct Ford 1600CVH ex Escort or similar, but special alternator mount as it is high up on SS1 , low down on fiesta etc etc

was asking if there was a fluid level switch somewhere on a 480, I'd not seen one but possible hidden , lord knows where . . . ..

[jifflemon]

was asking if there was a fluid level switch somewhere on a 480, I'd not seen one but possible hidden , lord knows where . . . ..

Yeah, that's interesting... The wiring diagrams do refer to brake fluid float, but its not in the cap (where you'd typically find it). Admittedly, I'm only looking at my photo's but if I get out there when it's not raining, I'll have a proper look!

[eye of ra]

That is interesting, maybe they moved it or even removed it, on my non ABS ES the brake fluid switch is on the top



So I assumed you were talking about the washer fluid switch which is hidden.

[Alan 480]

Don't have that on my 1993, two litre one. Another cost cutting?

[jifflemon]

and as can be clearly seen here.... Not on the reservoir or cap

[eye of ra]

Looking threw my various wiring diagrams I would guess it got dropped around 1991-92 when the ABS IV was introduced as it is mentioned in the 1991 book but not in the 1992-1994 supplement which has the Mk IV ABS.

[jamescarruthers]

Isn't it a legal requirement? Maybe it wasn't dropped but measured now as pressure only, not reservoir quantity?

[Alan 480]

ABS light MUST come on at ignition on and then stay off, IS part of MoT,

not sure if level IS required, the other cars don't have a switch so probably a 'nice to have' and if causing issues ? ? /

[eye of ra]

The mystery continues.

Using a Dutch manual from 94/95 and Google translate it looks like the Brake Fluid Level and Hand Brake lights were combined into one warning light, may have also happened here.

Also the Lamda sensor lamp was introduced and took the place the Handbrake Lamp on the instrument panel at some point.

More investigation needed.