fuel and ignition relay

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WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:08 am

Hi all...
I need to know the part numbers for the ignition and fuel relays situated under the dash..
One is Wehrle 20 210006. Is the other one the same..

My ignition one failed and I had to bridge another relay for it to work.. I cant find which one I took out..
Thanks
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
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Location: Derbyshire

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by eye of ra » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:50 pm

Just had a look and mine are both the same.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:13 pm

Thanks for the reply... It seems I have another problem with my car then.. I can only start the car with a piece of wire in the socket of the relay.. It wont start with just the relay in.. Ive tried loads of relays to no avail. I will just put it on the long list.. Thanks again
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

arthuy
Advanced 480 rookie
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Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by arthuy » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:27 pm

Have you got the correct type of relay?

The volvo seems to use the type A relays whilst the common cars are type B.

What pins have been bridged? This may help you out.
arthuy wrote:Image

This diagram is the five pin version showing the difference between the relay pins, but the 4 pins are the same without the centre pin (87a).

Just in case anyone stumbles across this post with the same issue the part numbers for the correct 4 pin relays are below.

Volvo: PN 472210/01
Pearl: PR06
Bosch: 0 332 019 451 / 0 332 014 406
BMW: 61311354393
Halfords: HEF555
siemens: V23134-K52-X249

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:36 pm

Hi. Thanks for the reply....

They are all the same part number... Its a weird one.. The car was running ok ages ago. Popped in a shop come out and nothing. The car was dead..

My car starts with either 86-30 bridged or 86 and 87.. The relay doesnt even have to be in..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

arthuy
Advanced 480 rookie
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by arthuy » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:21 pm

Which relay is it you are bridging?

I had a look at the diagrams for fuel pump and a few of the other relays.

30 and 86 are +Ive supplies and 87 is +ive feed to the pump. If you bridged either 30 or 86 with 87 I would say that either the relay is duff or the earth wire or even the -ive from the ECU.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:35 pm

Thanks for the reply and explanation..

It is the ignition relay which sits on the bracket next to the fuel pump relay.. The fuel pump relay is fine... The fuel pump relay is the one with the thinner wires.. The ignition relay has thicker wires..

Like I said it just died one day.. Weird..

Thanks again

Edited to add its a 92 turbo with the 26 fuse fuse box
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:23 pm

It wont start with 30 and 87 bridged... Juat 86-30 or 86-87
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

arthuy
Advanced 480 rookie
Posts: 562
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Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by arthuy » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:24 pm

'It wont start with 30 and 87 bridged... Just 86-30 or 86-87'

That makes more sense. Bridging 86-87 energises the circuit

I have looked over some of the diagrams and would say that you have no +ive supply at pin 30.

Image

3.03 is the ignition relay, 86 is the +ive pin which energises the relay. 30 is +ive supply from the battery so will be a thick wire, 87 is a red wire going off to the circuits the relay feeds. Not 100% sure what colour 30 is probably red or red tracer.

Have a look at the battery terminals, do you have any dodgy looking wires, on my car there are 2 spade terminals just below the battery, one of these is probably the supply for 30. Would check them out as a starting point.

What you want to avoid is running the car bridged as the wiring isnt designed for the current so could melt or over load the supply for 86 which I think comes from the ECU.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:03 am

Hi and thanks for the reply.....

My car is the b18ft to 1991....

I believe the relays are the same in the haynes b12 and b2..

I went to the car again and jiggled some wires and tried bridging the relay again... It only works bridged on 86-87... Its doing my head in :wall:
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by eye of ra » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:49 pm

When you could bridge between 86-87 & 86-30 that indicated that the relay and its control circuit were working and your fault was the lack of 12V from the battery to pin 30.

Now you can only bridge between 86-87 means the relay is now not working as well.

If you are lucky it’s just the relay burnt out, if your unlucky its...
arthuy wrote:What you want to avoid is running the car bridged as the wiring isnt designed for the current so could melt or over load the supply for 86 which I think comes from the ECU.
You need to restore 12V to pin 30 of the socket before doing anything else.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

dutmanjf
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Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by dutmanjf » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:18 pm

Try to get out the relais in the triangle box, put them in again with some contactspray. mine had such a problem, no problem anymore since then.
480 Turbo 1991 305

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:59 am

Thanks for the replys...

I will recheck all the live terminals for the battery again..

I dont even have to have the relay in for the car to start.. It just holds the wire in place..

Even with ignition off I can place the wire between pins 86-87 and you hear the ignitiom come on along with the abs pressuring up.. I could also do this with 86-30 until the other day...

Ive had a bad week but soon I will take the battery out and check all wires..

I hear whats been said about overloading the circuit..

Thanks once again
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

eye of ra
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:33 pm
Location: Derbyshire

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by eye of ra » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:11 pm

Having now got my diagrams out the relays under the dash are B2 and B12 not 3.03 and 3.04 (which are in the Relay Box) pictured above however the theory is the same, I think you are missing 12V at 30 so when the relay engages there is nothing to go to 87. Bridging is supplying 12V from elsewhere but if that circuit is not designed to take the larger current it will breakdown.

I would also say you may have the relays the wrong way round.
WhiteWolf wrote:The fuel pump relay is the one with the thinner wires.. The ignition relay has thicker wires..
My car has a different setup (thick and thin wires going to both) so cant check but looking at the diagram for the FT (1991) the B2 Relay (Ignition Relay) looks like it will be dealing with very little current so is likely to have the thin wires where as B12 Relay (Fuel Pump Relay) supplies power to the Fuel Pump, Injectors, Oxygen Sensor and the Idle Control Valve so is likely to have thick wires.

Bridging between 86 and 30/87 on B2 is not likely to do any harm however bridging between 86 and 30/87 on B12 is likely to damage the ECU as it will be trying to supply power to all the above listed items instead of just the relay.

EDIT

Looking closer bridging between 86 and 30/87 on B2 won’t do any harm as 86 and 30 are supposed to be joined (IMPORTANT this only relates to the F and FT engines NOT any others).

Also looks like from 1991 the relay sockets were colour coded so you should be able to identify them.

B2 is Black
B12 is white.
Current:
480 ES Auto 1989
480 Celebration 187
480 ES Auto 1991
CLK430 Conv 2001
Hyundai i10 2015

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:19 pm

Thanks for the reply....

Im sure it is the ignition ecu.. If I bridge the fuel pump relay the fuel pump kicks in.. The one I bridge makes a noise as if something electrical is activating behind the dash..

My car has 2 black sockets.. Its a good idea to have different colours.. Why that wasnt done in the beggining makes one wonder..

I really cant understand why bridging the relay starts the car.. The switch Im bridging is inside the relay..

It should be back on the road soon fingers crossed.


Thanks again...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Edmundpwb2
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:29 am

This sounds almost the same problem as mine at the moment. Did you ever manage to get this problem sorted? I haven't tried bridging mine yet but sounds very similar. B2 without relay in place has 12v going to 85 and 86 and 11v to 87 but no voltage to 30.

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by WhiteWolf » Sun Sep 27, 2020 2:17 pm

I never did find out the problem, it ran fine with the relay bridged though.. I hope you sort out your problem
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Edmundpwb2
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:16 pm

Thanks for replying. I am working on it. Week/no voltage to coil must be caused by something.

andycc123
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Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by andycc123 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:26 pm

Edmundpwb2 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:16 pm
Thanks for replying. I am working on it. Week/no voltage to coil must be caused by something.
Hi mate. Mine has just started doing what you described. No voltage on one pin but dont remember number, 87 I think, despite the relay working and therefore no voltage to the coil. Were you able to figure it out or find a solution?

Edmundpwb2
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Re: fuel and ignition relay

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:48 pm

Hi Andy
After much searching it turned out not to be the relays. In fact it was the crank sensor on mine. Even though I tested it as described in hbol. I only found out this to be the problem once I was able to borrow a spark crank sensor. The crank sensor going wrong affects alot of other functions when it went wrong.

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