Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

From CEM to VEM, from LED to lightbulb and more. If you have an electrical problem, like a broken info-centre, search for answers in this category. This is also the place to be when you expect the problem to be of an electrical nature...

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Ortovox77
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Ortovox77 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:01 pm

On my recent 480 that I bought about a month ago the speedometer was dead and info centre worked only sometimes. The dashboard had been replaced but I also had the original dash/cluster so I started testing switching the different parts.
For me what I found was that the Speedometers all worked, all solder points on both mainboards were ok and the problem was in the smaller control board (not sure if there is a real name for it).
Have you tested using another control board from another cluster?

If you get the exact same result on both speedometers with another control board then it seems likely that both speedos are bad.
------------------------------------------------
Volvo 480 Turbo 1994
Volvo 480 ES/GT 1995
Volvo 480 Turbo 1988
Volvo 480 Turbo 1990 (will be scrapped)
BMW Z4 coupe (ESS supercharged)
Saab 9-5 2006
Rotax DD2 Gokart
------------------------------------------------

Ortovox77
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Ortovox77 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:48 am

One question: If I understood it correctly one of your speedos work even when it's cold but just not between 20-60Km/h?

Then from what I have read that is typically a Stepper motor problem in the speedometer so then everything else seem to work and problem most likely is the speedometers.
------------------------------------------------
Volvo 480 Turbo 1994
Volvo 480 ES/GT 1995
Volvo 480 Turbo 1988
Volvo 480 Turbo 1990 (will be scrapped)
BMW Z4 coupe (ESS supercharged)
Saab 9-5 2006
Rotax DD2 Gokart
------------------------------------------------

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:59 am

There is no stepper motor in the speedometer itself. The speedometer acts as an analogue voltmeter, the higher the voltage on the blue and black wires, the more the needle indicates.
The odometer and trip counter are controlled by a stepper motor which advances a set of cog wheels.

I think there is some obstruction in the speedometer which causes the needle to stick between 20 and 60. Check for peeling of the black background.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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Jagermeister
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Jagermeister » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:51 am

Ortovox77 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:01 pm
On my recent 480 that I bought about a month ago the speedometer was dead and info centre worked only sometimes. The dashboard had been replaced but I also had the original dash/cluster so I started testing switching the different parts.
For me what I found was that the Speedometers all worked, all solder points on both mainboards were ok and the problem was in the smaller control board (not sure if there is a real name for it).
Have you tested using another control board from another cluster?

If you get the exact same result on both speedometers with another control board then it seems likely that both speedos are bad.
First of all I have to say that mine is an "S" so my cluster is without infocenter and got the 2 classic needle fuel/temp gauges.
I also tried to switch the main control board without changing the speedo but the result was the same (the other board is in good conditions and all but speedo works).
I have 2 little control boards and honestly I haven't tried to switch it from the other cluster, I'll try this solution next time I take out the cluster.
Thanks :wink:
Ortovox77 wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:48 am
One question: If I understood it correctly one of your speedos work even when it's cold but just not between 20-60Km/h?

Then from what I have read that is typically a Stepper motor problem in the speedometer so then everything else seem to work and problem most likely is the speedometers.
Yes, speedo that is currently fitted worked perfectly for months and now started to stop working as I explained.
The other was working when I tried the other cluster I bought months ago, but only in 20-60 kmh range.

brinkie wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:59 am
There is no stepper motor in the speedometer itself. The speedometer acts as an analogue voltmeter, the higher the voltage on the blue and black wires, the more the needle indicates.
The odometer and trip counter are controlled by a stepper motor which advances a set of cog wheels.

I think there is some obstruction in the speedometer which causes the needle to stick between 20 and 60. Check for peeling of the black background.
Yes, when I tried the other cluster the needle don't moved below 20 kmh and didn't indicate more than 60 kmh while moving.
I think at this point I'll have to pull out that speedo and check for that peeling while I'll replacing the odo wheel.
Have you idea about the function of the little board behind the cluster in the "S" cluster?


I'll keep you updated, thanks :D

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:39 am

The only difference is the info centre computer, if there is no info centre display but only "classic" temperature and fuel gauges, there is a printed circuit board that provides voltages for the needles to move and switches the "low fuel" and "high temperature" warnings. The electronics that control the speedometer and odometer are located on two little circuit boards on each side of the speedometer housing, they are connected to the main board through a little blue 5-pin connector and a flat cable (unless you have a car before MY 1989, those have 4 large pins protruding in the main board, the same way the rev counter is connected).

If you have an instrument cluster with info centre computer, and it has green and grey connectors (MY 1989 and onwards), you can safely interchange it in a car without info centre (although it is advisable to include an info centre switch ;) ). The oil temperature and outside temperature won't work, but the fuel and coolant temperature gauges are correct. The other way around is the same story, you can put an instrument cluster without info centre in a car that used to have one, as long as it has green and grey connectors. There is absolutely no harm in there.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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Jagermeister
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Jagermeister » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:31 pm

Ok, got it.
I have green/grey connectors, but I believed that clusters with and without infocenter aren't interchangeable because of some different pin-component's table showned in wiring manual (for example pins 17 and 18 on grey connector):

"IC" cluster
Image


"S" cluster
Image

But if, as you say, difference is only the missing some infos, that's great, there are more available spare clusters with IC and I'd like to have that display :hopping:

I'll also check the little control boards in the speedo, maybe I could have damaged them while changing the cog wheel and now they're totally gone...let's see.

thank you so much :D

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:27 am

The difference is that the symbol that lights. Before the introduction of the B20F engine, there was a separate warning lamp for handbrake ((P)) and brake fluid ((!)). From MY 1993 onwards they are combined and a warning lamp for engine management failure (lambda symbol) was introduced.
But the wiring is exactly the same! Older boards (1989-1991) have an extra relay (to switch the intensity of the background lighting) and even these can be used.

If the replacement instrument cluster has different symbols, retain the front (the black cover) that came with your car. :)
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:38 am

If you want to convert your car to info centre, you will need the following:

- Instrument cluster with info centre display (duh :lol:)
- Info centre computer for engine with Siemens Fenix 3B ECU and 60 litre tank, marked with "H" and all three tabs present, see the FAQ: http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/volvo48 ... ment_panel (the service manual says B18EP/FP but it also applies to the B20F)
- Info centre switch from MY 1988 and later (the MY 1986/1987 has a flat cable attached - they connect the wrong way around)
- combined oil temperature/oil level sender from a scrap car

All wiring is present, it is a matter of plug and play.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:52 pm

brinkie wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:27 am
Older boards (1989-1991) have an extra relay (to switch the intensity of the background lighting)
What is this relay that switches the lighting intensity? Sounds interesting. Is it supposed to dim the instrument cluster when the headlights are on?

Does it dim just the background lighting or can it also dim the lights that give status indications (e.g. ‎Heated rear screen, fog lights indication).

Introduced on 89 car, so not on my 87. Could it be easily added?
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Actually, all boards before 1991 (i.e. Phase 1 cars) have this feature but before 1989 they are not compatible with green and grey connector boards ;)
The background lighting is dimmed through the relay, that is, it will be controlled through the rheostat. But if your car has a light switch that always selects standing lights and rear lights even in 0 position (green lamp always on in the down left hand corner of the instrument cluster), it will make no difference.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by jamescarruthers » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:43 pm

Aah, so it won't work on any UK‎ cars really. No worries, was just interested in its function.

On the C6 there was a 'Dark' mode which I didn't think I would like until I tried it a few times. Absolutely every light on the instrument cluster went out apart from the green 'lights-on' status indicator, the LCD speedometer display and the HUD. It made driving at night really nice and I miss this.‎

The 480 is fine, but it would be nice if it could be dimmed a little more and also the status lights could be dimmed-- currently they are very bright, even with the rheostat turned right down. 

Thanks Brinkie‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:42 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:43 pm
On the C6 there was a 'Dark' mode which I didn't think I would like until I tried it a few times. Absolutely every light on the instrument cluster went out apart from the green 'lights-on' status indicator, the LCD speedometer display and the HUD. It made driving at night really nice and I miss this.‎
Seems like they have copied the "Night Panel" feature from SAAB! :)
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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Jagermeister
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Jagermeister » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:41 am

brinkie wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:27 am
The difference is that the symbol that lights. Before the introduction of the B20F engine, there was a separate warning lamp for handbrake ((P)) and brake fluid ((!)). From MY 1993 onwards they are combined and a warning lamp for engine management failure (lambda symbol) was introduced.
But the wiring is exactly the same! Older boards (1989-1991) have an extra relay (to switch the intensity of the background lighting) and even these can be used.

If the replacement instrument cluster has different symbols, retain the front (the black cover) that came with your car. :)
Ok, it's true!
In fact my car is a MY 94 and has the lambda light, and the other cluster is from a MY 91/92 and has the brake symbol, so i can combine them :D

brinkie wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:38 am
If you want to convert your car to info centre, you will need the following:

- Instrument cluster with info centre display (duh :lol:)
- Info centre computer for engine with Siemens Fenix 3B ECU and 60 litre tank, marked with "H" and all three tabs present, see the FAQ: http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/volvo48 ... ment_panel (the service manual says B18EP/FP but it also applies to the B20F)
- Info centre switch from MY 1988 and later (the MY 1986/1987 has a flat cable attached - they connect the wrong way around)
- combined oil temperature/oil level sender from a scrap car

All wiring is present, it is a matter of plug and play.
Understood, so the only important thing is to find a post-92 cluster.
What do you mean with Info centre computer? It's the little control board behind the cluster connecting to the IC switch?

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:45 pm

Jagermeister wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:41 am
What do you mean with Info centre computer? It's the little control board behind the cluster connecting to the IC switch?
Correct! :D

They are all the same for non turbo cars from January 1991 and later (Phase 2 with small side mirrors and CEM III, serial 567600 and up). Only the font on the dials differs, from MY 1994 they have used the Volvo Broad font which is still in use today. Speedometer, rev counter, all are compatible.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

Hkerswell
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Hkerswell » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:03 pm

Hey I'm looking for a repair could I send it off to you! I'm UK based

jifflemon
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by jifflemon » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:12 pm

Hkerswell wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:03 pm
Hey I'm looking for a repair could I send it off to you! I'm UK based
You've seen this post?

Or this one?

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:45 pm

Update:

Sending parcels the UK is difficult at the moment because of Brexit and coronavirus.
DPD has suspended service to the UK and DHL only offers next day delivery at vastly inflated prices (£50 for a parcel)
The Netherlands is currently in lockdown because of the coronavirus spreading, all non essential retail is closed. This includes most of the parcel drop off points for DHL and DPD.

The only reasonably priced service currently offered is that of PostNL. As PostNL is run by a greedy bunch, they will route their UK parcels through the cheapest, and equal greedy bunch: Hermes. They have already lost two of my parcels or blatantly refuse to deliver if the address is in a rural area, claiming they cannot find the address. And if it arrives, the parcels are often damaged.

Receiving parcels also needs care, as the sending party has to mark the shipment as a gift and declare its value below €45 (£39), otherwise the receiver will be hit by VAT and customs clearance fee.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

jifflemon
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by jifflemon » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:55 am

Hkerswell wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:03 pm
Hey I'm looking for a repair could I send it off to you! I'm UK based
Where about in the UK are you? And what's the current problem with the dash? More than happy to take a look, as I keep most the spares you'd need for it "in stock"

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brinkie
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by brinkie » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:27 pm

Please don't send me any more instrument clusters from the UK. I will more or less repeat my previous post.

Not just the customs which is getting increasingly difficult. The 22 Euro VAT exemption is gone, so a receiver will be hit with VAT and clearance fee and there will be considerable delays at Customs.

Also there is no way of sending parcels cheap, as DPD has not yet resumed delivery to the UK (expected to resume service end March, but these dates have been pushed back twice already) and DHL still offers next-day delivery only at inflated prices. While it still can be sent cheap through PostNL/Hermes, you will run the risk of your precious instrument cluster will be dumped somewhere in an industrial estate, because the Hermes driver can't be bothered to deliver it to you. Or plays football with it.

So it will be best to send them either to Jeff or Will if you're in the UK. Less postage. Less risk. Same service.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

Norm57
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Re: Instrument cluster/speedometer repairs

Post by Norm57 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:04 pm

:hopping: we should have had a “Brinkie” brexit clause!

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