Ignition switch problem?

From CEM to VEM, from LED to lightbulb and more. If you have an electrical problem, like a broken info-centre, search for answers in this category. This is also the place to be when you expect the problem to be of an electrical nature...

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glasgowjim
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by glasgowjim » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:22 pm

the CEM has nothing to do with the engine. You can take the CEM out and the car runs perfectly well just no wipers blah blah....

oldgitdave
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:37 pm

ECU, CEM, same thing?

So the mention of one wire going to the ECU & one wire going to the solenoid via the auto box inhibitor is a red herring?

I'll try the hotwire in the morning, at least I'll be able to move her if she starts. Unfortunately my drive is downhill to the garage so no chance of pushing her out.

Will report back tomorrow.

Cheers,
Dave
Current:
1995 'M' 480 ES Auto S/R 'Dusty'
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eye of ra
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by eye of ra » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:01 am

oldgitdave wrote:So the mention of one wire going to the ECU & one wire going to the solenoid via the auto box inhibitor is a red herring?
Was looking at diagram for my car which is pre CEM and one wire goes to ECU and one goes straght to solenoid, sorry.

Post CEM one wire goes to the ECU the other goes to the CEM which acts as a relay to feed the solenoid.

ECU and CEM are not the same thing.

After the auto switch the wire changes colour to green/white before going to the CEM.

Image

This is from a 1991 book so may not be the same as 1995. However the starter circuit is not in the later supplement of changes so may be right.
Last edited by eye of ra on Tue May 08, 2018 4:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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oldgitdave
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:11 pm

Thanks for the diagram, it should help me get this sorted eventually. I still need to find the CEM and see if there's anything obvious there.
For now though I've got her running, yay :hopping:. I did what Jim said and have jury rigged a push button switch under the bonnet. I didn't know whether to disconnect the original wire so have left it connected by using a piggyback spade connector on to the solenoid. Switched the ignition on, pressed the button and she started first time. Here's a pic of my bodge job.

Image

I've been for a short run and everything checks out; lights, indicators, wipers, windows etc. all working. So, here she is on the drive in all her glory.

Image

Obviously I've got to be careful not to turn the key to position 3 and make sure she's not in Drive. But at least I have her working for now. Shes due for MOT in 3 weeks so will need to get a permanent fix before then I guess. As soon as I find out what the real cause is I'll let you know.

Cheers,
Dave
Current:
1995 'M' 480 ES Auto S/R 'Dusty'
2010 RAV4

Previous:
2002 S60 2.0L Turbo Auto
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doingitsideways
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by doingitsideways » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:34 pm

Glad you got her started, even if it is a temporary fix.

Car looks lovely. Gotta love a Vase Green :)

Different choice of wheels there, don't see many of them.
Can't remember the name of them, but I've just aquired a set with a car I've just bought and will most likely be moving them on.
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical fault!"
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oldgitdave
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:15 pm

Thanks Steve, at least I can get to drive her and get to the auto electrician. I really need to find the CEM now and maybe look at the inhibitor switch on the auto box, though it does seem to be working correctly. Must say these electrical problems give me a right headache :roll:. I'm much more at home with mechanics. Oh the fun of owning a 480 :wall:

The colour is actually 321 dark green metallic, not vase green. Probably my rubbish phone camera :?

I didn't realise the wheels were a bit different. When I bought her you couldn't see the Volvo logo in the centre so I put prancing moose stickers on them. Cool eh?

Cheers,
Dave
Current:
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2002 S60 2.0L Turbo Auto
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doingitsideways
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by doingitsideways » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:43 pm

Looks great from here either way :)

I see you've got some of those clear side repeaters and reflectors too. Very smart :)

Yeah, it took me a while to realise what the wheels were, as the centre caps have faded on these ones too and there are no real markings on the inside.
They came with (not on) a 460 I bought today and as far as I can tell, the original owner ticked every single item on the options list, so these wheels were probably on there too.
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by glasgowjim » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:28 pm

By putting the push switch inside the car I used the blank that covers the space for the footlight under the dash at the left hand side of the steering wheel. This will not give you a fail on the MOT
just remember to tell the garage about the switch

Suggest that you disconnect the wire that goes from turn 3 at the switch end and see if it makes a difference if not then just leave off and use the stone age technology.

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doingitsideways
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by doingitsideways » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:50 am

Also a good way of fitting a sneaky immobilizer :)
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical fault!"
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by eye of ra » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:26 am

I can’t tell you exactly where it is as I don’t have one but this should give you a good idea where it is and what it looks like. This shows a LHD so would assume it’s on the other side.

However a search found this so maybe not.
Captain Slow wrote:On RHD cars it is behind +above the bonnet release catch, meaning its to the left of the glovebox.

To get to the cem you can just pull the plastic bonnet release handle off, then theres one screw which holds the plastic trim on, once removed you can pull the trim off and gain access to the cem (held in place by 2 screws)
Image

As you can see the auto switch goes to connection B, disconnect it, put the car in P or N and turn the key, if you don’t get smoke fault is in CEM, if it still smokes it’s in the wiring between the auto switch and the CEM.
Last edited by eye of ra on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oldgitdave
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:19 am

eye of ra wrote: As you can see the auto switch goes to connection B, disconnect it, put the car in P or N and turn the key, if you don’t get smoke fault is in CEM, if it still smokes it’s in the wiring between the auto switch and the CEM.
Thanks for this eye of ra. Probably won't be able to get round to this until next weekend now but sounds like we're homing in on the problem. Must say I'm a bit worried whether to use the car or not. If it's a CEM fault I guess other thing might start to fail?
glasgowjim wrote:By putting the push switch inside the car I used the blank that covers the space for the footlight under the dash at the left hand side of the steering wheel. This will not give you a fail on the MOT
just remember to tell the garage about the switch

Suggest that you disconnect the wire that goes from turn 3 at the switch end and see if it makes a difference if not then just leave off and use the stone age technology.
If my checks are inconclusive then I'll fit the switch inside the car to make it a permanent feature. I'll try disconnecting the wire from position 3 first to see if everything still works! I realise by doing this it'll bypass the auto switch but I suppose it's no different than leaving a manual in gear whilst trying to start it?
doingitsideways wrote: I see you've got some of those clear side repeaters and reflectors too. Very smart :)
I bought them on here last year. Also put silvered bulbs in all the indicators (not the rear ones) to get rid of any hint of orange, except when they flash of course. I think it improves the looks. Eventually I want to put indicator bulbs in the rear wing reflectors but obviously need to get this ignition fault sorted first.
Current:
1995 'M' 480 ES Auto S/R 'Dusty'
2010 RAV4

Previous:
2002 S60 2.0L Turbo Auto
1995 'N' 480 Celebration Auto 443/480

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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:32 pm

Well guys I changed the CEM to the spare I have & the car strated with the key first time :hopping: So it appears to be CEM problem as suggested. I've had a good look at it but can't see any obvious problems though. Non of the wires to the CEM show any sign of damage whatsoever either.

I've had a chat with an auto electrician & he put a bit of doubt in my mind saying the fault could be in the wiring & so could have damaged the CEM as a consequence. So for now I'm using the button under the bonnet to start her up. He mentioned also that the wiring loom should really be inspected to see if there's damage to other wires following the burning of the white/blue wire. All damaged wires would need to be repaired or replaced. He reckons there a good chance of future problems as a result of the burnout. I'm guess he's right but it'll be a pricey fix & I can't afford it right now, especially after buying a new starter motor :nuts:

So my plan now is to disconnect the white/blue wire from the ignition switch to stop me cranking the engine with the key accidentally & see if everything runs ok. If so I'll fit the start button inside the car, probably under the dash where glasgowjim suggested. I'll put an inline fuse in, probably a 20A and make it look a proper job under the bonnet.

Thanks again for all your help with this one guys!

Cheers,
Dave
Current:
1995 'M' 480 ES Auto S/R 'Dusty'
2010 RAV4

Previous:
2002 S60 2.0L Turbo Auto
1995 'N' 480 Celebration Auto 443/480

oldgitdave
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:25 pm

Yay, she passed the MOT today with no advisories :hopping:. One odd thing though, the chap noticed the nearside mcpherson strut was fitted the wrong way round :shock:. Apparently he noticed the spring looked really close to the inner wing (he'd had a Fiat in a couple of days earlier and the spring was actually rubbing the inner wing because it had also been fitted the wrong way round!) He was surprised he'd not noticed it last year. I'm surprised I'd not noticed anything different whilst driving it. Anyway it's sorted now and I'm good to go for another 12 months.

Sorry, a bit off topic there :wink:. As for the ignition issue I've disconnected the cranking wire from the ignition switch and isolated it just in case. I daren't risk starting her with the key using the damaged wiring & I can't afford to have it sorted properly. So I've done a proper job on fitting a starter button under the dash just as Jim suggested. I've been running her for a week now & everything seems peachy :D. So thanks to all you guys Dusty is back on the road & for me this will be a permanent feature. I can live with that no problem :)
Current:
1995 'M' 480 ES Auto S/R 'Dusty'
2010 RAV4

Previous:
2002 S60 2.0L Turbo Auto
1995 'N' 480 Celebration Auto 443/480

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glasgowjim
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by glasgowjim » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:42 pm

Good to hear that you can live with the switch my daughter ran for ages with the switch under the dash it made her car special :lol:

never did get to the bottom of the problem still I didnt need to. :D

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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by Paul240480 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:46 pm

Glad you got Dusty sorted bro'. Great help from the forum as per...... :D
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oldgitdave
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Re: Ignition switch problem?

Post by oldgitdave » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:00 pm

Absolutely. I couldn't have sorted it without these guys :D
Current:
1995 'M' 480 ES Auto S/R 'Dusty'
2010 RAV4

Previous:
2002 S60 2.0L Turbo Auto
1995 'N' 480 Celebration Auto 443/480

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