Stress with the Es

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WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:34 pm

Hello to all...

This is my first real post on the forum... I have managed to sort a lot out on the car through browsing the forum :D

This is my second round with 480's in my life.. I had one 10 years ago and can honestly say it was my favourite I've ever had.. Unfortunately the gearbox decided to fail on my whilst playing with a golf...

Anyways.. I now have 2 other 480's. One is a 91 manual turbo with a Roboumod waiting to be fitted. That car starts lovely. All the electrics work on it although the info centre decides to come on and off at will.. Also the revs come on and off on the counter which is solved with a brisk slap.. That car just needs an MOT and a better interior. It was rescued from Wales off of eBay :D

The other one I have is a 91 Es.. This is being problematic to say the least.. I bought that in November last year and had it trailered to my address. It had been standing for a while so was hard to start on a jump. We managed to start it and I drove it a short distance to storage. The car would not go past 3000/3500rpm. I put it in a yard to do some other bits to it.. Heater wasn't working, which I traced to behind the glovebox. It was a loose connection. Found out by slapping the dash.. I needed an exhaust which I have finally got.. The lights needed sorting which was just bulbs..
I kept turning the car over and it would start straight awaya although would not go past 3500rpm. Now it won't start at all.. The engine turns over but I notice the fuel pump will prime after I have stopped cranking the engine. Could this be the relay..
I'm not really good with electrics but had a gander in the Haynes book and got myself a multimeter.. I've checked the resistance of the ignition coil which is supposed to be zero with ignition of and it reads 1.388
It still produces a spark.. To be honest I don't know if I'm checking it right...

My main concern is the fuel pump doesn't prime on start but it will kick into action after the cranking had stopped..

I am not looking for a miracle I'm more just moaning out aloud :D

I can't even try the turbo cool on the Es as its different..
Are the relays the same... I will have to whip them out when I'm back at the cars

Cheers.. Jay
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:37 pm

One other little problem. The diagnostic unit doesn't work.. It lights up when pressed but no flashing occurs..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:10 pm

The weather was nice today so I decided to have another go at starting it..
I purchased a new battery off of eBay because the other one was not brilliant.. This one is a 680cca and a 72a capacity.. Before I tried to turn it I changed the distributor cap as the contacts on the old one were virtually non exsistant.. Tried to start it and it wouldn't fire.. It turns over lovely though and I can hear the fuel pump working.. I have checked the fuses under the dash and both are fine.. I can hear the relay clicking when the ignition goes off and on...

Next step was to check fuel was getting to the rail.. I took the pipe off of the fuel pressure regulator on the right hand side of the engine and tried to turn it.. No fuel came out at all... I blew down the pipe going to the rails and you can feel pressure building up in the system, stop blowing and the pressure releases itself out of the pipe with a smell of petrol... Should petrol fly out of there when it's turned over or have I got it wrong.. When I sucked the pipe I could taste something about to come out....

Basically all I want to know is should petrol ha e come out of the pipe that connects to the regulator when the car is turned over....

Thank you
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1489
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by Alan 480 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:39 pm

Pretty sure fuel should come out when cranking,

you need to short out the relays and do some disconnecting on crankshaft sensor

look at section 4B-10 in HBOL :D
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:03 pm

Thanks for the reply..
That's what I thought should happen with the fuel.. It doesn't prime when I turn on the ignition either.. I will check the fuel pump relay. I have a turbo as well so I will see of the part numbers match and try swapping them. I will also try cleaning the crank sensor. The fuel pump buzzes when cranking and for 2-3 seconds after..
To the book of lies :D
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:24 pm

Finally managed to get to the car today...
The first thing I did was check the relays under the dash.. I could hear them click when I turned on the ignition.. Swapped them with other relays from the turbo and the same thing happens.. Click when ignition is turned on and that's it.. No start..

Next I moved onto the crankshaft sensor.. I've taken it off and exchanged it for the one off of the turbo that is being stripped for parts.. Same story, no start..

Should the fuel system prime itself before starting.. It does on the turbo.. A soon as I connect the battery I can hear it pressuring up...


The only clues I can give myself is when I got the car it wouldn't rev over 3500rpm.. It was really stuttering if you tried to give it full revs..
I've changed the distributor etc etc

It puzzles me after trying to start I can hear the fuel pump working.. Only after I've stopped cranking...

The saga continues....
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

Martin Mc
480 Rookie
Posts: 457
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 11:57 am

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by Martin Mc » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:08 pm

Had a similar problem with my ES not revving past 3k.

Turned out to be the catalytic converter was on the way out. It got steadily worse as unburnt fuel contaminated the cat more and more, until eventually it croaked.

Ebay was a godsend, and £45 later plus £55 fitting at my local garage, the car was back to it's quirky but perky best.

I hope your problem is as straightforward to sort out.

Cheers!
1991 ES White / 1995 ES Red / 1995 ES Red / 1994 S Black / 1995 Celebration Red / 1994 S Paris Blue / 1995 Celebration (again!) Red - Currently free of all extramarital cars, wrench-loose and fancy free :)

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:27 pm

Hi and thank you for the reply..
Funny you should say that as I currently have the exhaust off from the cat back.. I have a new exhaust to put on it for its MOT if I can get it started..
I will have a look at it try to take a look inside.. I might just take the lamba sensor off and give it a prod..

When I first bought it it took a while to jump start it... Started fine on and off for a while. I wasn't driving it I just had it stored for repairs...

The only thing I can think of that I haven't checked is the ignition coil.. I don't know wether that can stop the fuel flowing if it's faulty.. Unfortunately the coil on the turbos are different.

I am at it in a few days again so will try to crack on..
Thanks again
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:23 pm

I'm starting to lose the will with this car haha

So I've returned to the car with the book of lies...
I've always though it was something to do with the fuel..

I can only here my fuel pump after cranking.. I've checked the relays and fuses and they seem fine.. I've exchanged them as well.. No joy...

According to the Haynes manual the fuel pump should run for about 3 seconds after the ignition turns on... Mine does it after I've stopped cranking...

I've bridged the fuel relay like it says and I can hear the pump whizzing away... It's puzzling me as why it's back to front...

I cracked the pressure regulator and its dry...

Next stop I will take the back seats out and inspect the pump further..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:34 pm

Just checked the master relay
Voltage on terminals 30,86 and 89 should read 12v and 85 between 0-1v with ignition on...
They are all fine apart from 89 that reads 11.2v (although on the relay it says 87)
These are readings with the relay off of the block..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:56 pm

For some strange reason the fuel pump is working when I crank it now :shock: . I can hear it whizzing... Only when cranking though
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:42 am

I went back to the car yesterday and managed to get the diagnostic module to work.. In other words I read the instructions correctly...
It came out with 4 codes
Of the top of my head they were
1-3-2
2-2-2
2-4-3 and another I can't remember at the minute..

They say that there is no voltage to the system coil.. No voltage to the main coil.. Incorrect battery voltage...

The one that's stumped me is the 2-4-3. It's not on the list...

So does that basically mean my main cool has had it an should be replaced?

I hope it's as simple as that, it would explain why it was hesitant under load...

I put a multi metre across the battery and it read 12v unsure when cranking though..

The final thing is I couldn't reset the module... I held the button for 5 seconds waited for the red light pressed it again but the codes still come back...
The saga continues...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:15 pm

Would the coil be a good thing to change given the codes and the failure to rev past 3000rpm..
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

User avatar
doingitsideways
480 Expert
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by doingitsideways » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:18 am

Yes, I'd change the coil.
I'd check the wiring to it first though.

Also leave the battery disconnected overnight to reset the codes before trying again :)
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical fault!"
Hammers can't fix a 480!!!

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:49 pm

Thanks for the reply..

I went back to the car today.. I had previously disconnected the battery to reset the fault codes like you suggested..
Now the diagnostic module doesn't respond on socket 2 for the fuel system... I tried the only other socket, 5 and it came up with 1-1-1.. It is temperamental to say the least.
Anyway I have ordered a replacement coil and it should arrive in the next few days.. Fingers crossed that it's the problem..
:hopping:
I just want it on the road... :wall:

Cheers
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:50 pm

Re: Stress with the Es

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:10 pm

The coil arrived to today... So I rushed to the car.. Fitted it and the same thing is happening... I tried the diagnostic module again and it came up 1-1-1...
Reset it then the codes and they at telling me no signal to the system coil and insufficient battery voltage...

I have been back to the HBOL and went to the ignition chapter..
I've taken the coil off as described and checked the resistance of the actual computer module on the back of the coil... Checked the resistance between pins A and 1 which is supposed to be zero ohms but it's registering 1.8/2.

I suppose that could restrict the flow of electricity to the coil hence me getting the codes I have...

I've took the ignition cowling off and checked the wires to the ignition barrel.. I've checked the relays under the dash and under the bonnet...

I hope it's the module...
Any one know where I can get a computer module from...
Cheers
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

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