Battery Not Charging

surrealjam · Post by **surrealjam** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:36 pm

Hi all

I have had an issue with the old 480 - the battery is not being charged with the engine running.

Yesterday, when I tried to start the car, the battery was dead. I didn't think much of it (the battery is old and I'd been working on the car all day with the doors open a lot). I charged the battery, and it started on the key first time.

Last night, while I was driving, the lights dimmed on the dash and before long, the engine stalled all together.

The work I was doing on the car was all routine, and not related in any way to the electrics (oil filter, fuel filter etc). I am obviously aware this would suggest the alternator is not functioning as the belt is still on it and all connectors seem to be intact. However, I thought it odd that while I was driving the battery light did not come on - I was led to believe if the alternator was not creating a current, the battery light was the first sign of this.

I do not believe the car has a megafuse so this can be ruled out. So what could it be, given the battery light does not come on? Could the belt be tight enough to turn the alternator but not tight enough to turn it enough to charge the battery?

I'm not in an immediate position to test any theories as it is now as dead as a dodo!!

Just looking for some ideas to bounce around please. Many thanks - James.

B18FT - LOVER · Post by **B18FT - LOVER** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:47 pm

It will be the altinator mate 100%, not all altinators put the light on when there duff..

I changed one just last week with no charge at all coming out but the light never come on...

Change that altinator mate, get a multi meter get the car running and put the meter accross the battery terminals you need to see over 14 v idealy, then turn all your lights on and heated rear screen etc then see what it reads whilst under load... you really want to see over 13.80 under load..

DaKyy · Post by **DaKyy** » Mon May 18, 2009 4:21 am

surrealjam wrote:Could the belt be tight enough to turn the alternator but not tight enough to turn it enough to charge the battery?

Yes. I had this week ago when I was driving the car to a garage. The tension adjust broke and the alternator kind of dropped down. The belt was on and the alternator turned but did not charge. But the belt was clearly loose.

ted clutch · Post by **ted clutch** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:16 am

if the light didnt come on it is the brushes for sure.i was going to ask you this.them lights are 95% useless.i have fitted a volt meter.the reason i say this is because of how the warning light works.self energising alternators need a small current at start up to kickstart the output.when it starts generating it feeds the output voltage back to the regulator to provide a field current.untill this happens the current comes from the dash light bulb.the circuit goes through the brushes.it is the back voltage which puts the light out when it generates.therefore the light wont come on if the brushes are shot because it breaks the circuit to earth.it will only tell you of a fault if there is a field current but no output which hardly ever happens.
get a volt gauge.this tells you the real output.
ive spent far too much time under the car.
if the main fuse is ok im 99.9% sure of this.you can buy a new regulator from ebay.the small squarish box with wire on alternator if you didnt know.they are not very expensive .this is the sort of thing.i think this is for a volvo penta boat but gives a good visual reference.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-REGULATOR-ALT ... 1|294%3A50
these wear down on any car after about 80000-100000 miles.
edit.before you buy new brushes check the main fuse(i.e mega)and also check the small wire to the alternator.this is the said dash light circuit.if this doesnt supply 12v with ignition on then it wont kick start the alternator and the dash light wont come on.mine was a bit frayed at the spade connector.you could have knocked it off when working on the car.if you can post some pictures of the alternator i can see if youve knocked it off near the oil filter.

ted clutch · Post by **ted clutch** » Mon May 18, 2009 11:50 am

ted clutch wrote:if the light didnt come on it is the brushes for sure.i was going to ask you this.them lights are 95% useless.i have fitted a volt meter.the reason i say this is because of how the warning light works.self energising alternators need a small current at start up to kickstart the output.when it starts generating it feeds the output voltage back to the regulator to provide a field current.untill this happens the current comes from the dash light bulb.the circuit goes through the brushes.it is the back voltage which puts the light out when it generates.therefore the light wont come on if the brushes are shot because it breaks the circuit to earth.it will only tell you of a fault if there is a field current but no output which hardly ever happens.
get a volt gauge.this tells you the real output.
ive spent far too much time under the car.
if the main fuse is ok im 99.9% sure of this.you can buy a new regulator from ebay.the small squarish box with wire on alternator if you didnt know.they are not very expensive .this is the sort of thing.i think this is for a volvo penta boat but gives a good visual reference.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-REGULATOR-ALT ... 1|294%3A50
these wear down on any car after about 80000-100000 miles.
edit.before you buy new brushes check the main fuse(i.e mega)and also check the small wire to the alternator.this is the said dash light circuit.if this doesnt supply 12v with ignition on then it wont kick start the alternator and the dash light wont come on.mine was a bit frayed at the spade connector.you could have knocked it off when working on the car.if you can post some pictures of the alternator i can see if youve knocked it off near the oil filter.

surrealjam · Post by **surrealjam** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:04 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. If I get a chance to look at it tonight (weather permitting) I will post my findings. Ted, I believe I know which cable you are refering to and it was plugged in. May clean the connections and retry.

Cheers for now!

glasgowjim · Post by **glasgowjim** » Mon May 18, 2009 4:49 pm

Go with the check suggested by b18ft lover first.

Raffadakis · Post by **Raffadakis** » Mon May 18, 2009 8:36 pm

You might check if the poles of the battery get warm/hot while engine is running. That was the case on my 480 which resulted from a bad ground connection (battery to chassis). Replaced the ground cable and now the voltage is ok and the battery is getting charged by the alternator. Even had complete electrics breakdown when trying to start the engine. Touching and moving the ground cable did bring em back.

Greets
Raff

surrealjam · Post by **surrealjam** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:46 pm

Hi all

I jump started the car earlier tonight after charging for a couple of minutes. Started absolutely fine on the key.

I left it running for a while to see how long it would take to run the battery down. However, it ran indefinitely with all electrical items I could think of. So I presume the battery is now taking a charge.

I have disconnected and reconnected the grounds and the small wire which runs from the top of the alternator.

My question is this - how likely is this to be an intermittent fault with the alternator vs how likely is it to be a dodgy connection somewhere? From what I can tell, the tension on the belt is driving the alternator without slipping.

Cheers,
James

glasgowjim · Post by **glasgowjim** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:11 pm

stick an ammeter between the postive of the batery and the red lead when the engine is off to see how much of a current drain there is.

then put multimeter to volts and connect across battery with some long wires hen ape meter o dash and go for a drive should no drop below 13.4 volts at any time.

ted clutch · Post by **ted clutch** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:53 pm

this points me back to the brushes.i said check the wire first just in case you accidently knocked it off.but seeing as you have checked it i would go straight to the brushes now.they can be intermittant because they wear down slowly.i ve had this happen.it came back on again after spluttering and managed to get me home,the warning light only slightly flickered very very dimly.take the regulator off and see if they are worn down a lot..if it was anything to do with the output side the red light would be firmly on.
do this and tell me what happens.switch the ignition on but dont start the engine.look at the warning light and tell me if its on or off or dimmer than the other warning lights.a working alternator will have the light full on only going out as the engine fires up.if its off or dim the brushes are failing as the light circuit fails to earth through them.this is very easy to miss.how many people normally check for this when they start the engine.especialy when the oil light and parking brake light come on you just see a red glow and carry on.
i know i am suggesting the obviouse with brushes but it is the only fault i have encountered over about 210kmiles ive been driving and 4th volvo.

surrealjam · Post by **surrealjam** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:16 am

Thanks to all for your response and interest in this thread. I'm away for a couple of days with work so diagnosis is on hold. Jim - I don't have a multimeter so may have to pick a cheap one up. Ted - from memory, the battery light was on with the ignition but I will double check and report back!

The car has done around 60k miles, so I'm hoping it's nothing too serious. I fear for the old girl!

B18FT - LOVER · Post by **B18FT - LOVER** » Tue May 19, 2009 7:22 pm

Ã‚Â£10 says its altinator

gltease · Post by **gltease** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:30 pm

Its odd, just before my turbo passed MOT it had a similar issue, mechanic did all the usual checks, turned out my battery had a dead cell, it would charge ok, have enough amps to start the car but later on id be left stranded in an automatic with no battery, new battery now and no more issues.

C

bkf_uk · Post by **bkf_uk** » Tue May 19, 2009 8:33 pm

gltease wrote:Its odd, just before my turbo passed MOT it had a similar issue, mechanic did all the usual checks, turned out my battery had a dead cell, it would charge ok, have enough amps to start the car but later on id be left stranded in an automatic with no battery, new battery now and no more issues.

C

Lol my 440 (which is a auto) did this to me today in a bloody car wash! how fukin stupid did i feel having to get the spotty idiot behind the counter to push me out! and then explaining to him why i couldnt "bump" start the car. had to get the rac out!

kev · Post by **kev** » Wed May 20, 2009 3:09 am

I had the same problem .Battery not charging ,lights dimming on the
Dash .So I changed the regulator as the bushes were worn and took it
for a run .Guess what it died on me.RAC called out for the first time in
My driving life and it turned out to be the Megafuse !

B18FT - LOVER · Post by **B18FT - LOVER** » Wed May 20, 2009 6:34 am

so wat was it kev...

kev · Post by **kev** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:02 pm

B18FT - LOVER wrote:so wat was it kev...

It was the megafuse .It must be broken inside as when you pulled it from both ends the circuit was broken.

To get me home the RAC removed the fuse and bolted the cables together. I then put a replacement fuse in when I got home.

ted clutch · Post by **ted clutch** » Wed May 20, 2009 3:39 pm

i think he meant what caused the fuse to blow.could be just age or a fault. ive blown this in the past working on car with battery connected.accidently touched the ratchet handle on the alternator.

B18FT - LOVER · Post by **B18FT - LOVER** » Wed May 20, 2009 7:31 pm

No he said that he took it out and he broke down, so i was wondering why it broke down, so question answered.. lol

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