Help needed. No start. No spark

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andycc123
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by andycc123 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:20 pm

Hi all

Following this thread closely as I believe I have the exact same issue. Seemingly no power to the coil when cranking. Therefore no spark etc. I think fuel.is also affected but that could be down to the lack of pulse?

My crank position sensor has bang on the 220 resistance Haynes states but I uavent cleaned it up yet.

Was Ed's issue resolved? Any help and guidance is very welcome. FYI I have been doing the normal fuse and relay tests today. Nothing obvious so far. Thanks all

Edmundpwb2
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:02 pm

Hi Andy
As I say on the other thread after much searching it turned out not to be the relays. In fact it was the crank sensor on mine. Even though I tested it as described in hbol and it seemed ok. I only found out this to be the problem once I was able to borrow a crank sensor. The crank sensor going wrong affects alot of other functions. DC Walker and Jifflemon are the real experts and helped. Me alot with fault diagnosis. Hope this helps

andycc123
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by andycc123 » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:52 pm

It really does, thank you. I have ordered a new crank position sensor.

But what I'm struggling to get my head around with is the relay, I think the one for the fuel pump which seems to give power to fuel pump, coil and injectors. It appears to be working but when key is turned it clicks but power is not then flowing between 30 and 87 as it should but when I test the relays continuity it all seems fine so it doesnt make much sense. I think you too mentioned this being a head scratching issue. Was that simply solved by the crank sensor and just accept the resolution that way?

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dcwalker
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by dcwalker » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:21 am

Morning Andy

Start with the crank sensor and eliminate that from the investigation first. We can go from there if it isn't the answer but it is a very likely culprit.

The two relays up under the dash on driver's side are the ignition master and the fuel pump relays. They are interchangeable and a very common relay - you'll find several more like them under the bonnet in the relay box for less important functions, so you can always "borrow" from there to test relays to at least try to get the car started.

If the fuel pump is working you should hear a brief "buzz" when you turn to ignition point II with the key...

What age/model is the car? Does it have the code reader and if so have you checked there?

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 Celebration 331 (plus 2004 C70 Collection & 1995 440 ES)
Previous: Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:12 am

dcwalker wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:21 am

If the fuel pump is working you should hear a brief "buzz" when you turn to ignition point II with the key...

David
Remember older 480s don’t do this priming thing with the fuel pump, they only activate the fuel pump when they see the engine turning with the crank sensor.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2003 Renault Avantime 3.0 V6 (Big Ren)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

jifflemon
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by jifflemon » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:11 pm

andycc123 wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:52 pm
It really does, thank you. I have ordered a new crank position sensor.

But what I'm struggling to get my head around with is the relay, I think the one for the fuel pump which seems to give power to fuel pump, coil and injectors. It appears to be working but when key is turned it clicks but power is not then flowing between 30 and 87 as it should but when I test the relays continuity it all seems fine so it doesnt make much sense. I think you too mentioned this being a head scratching issue. Was that simply solved by the crank sensor and just accept the resolution that way?
What Model/year have you got?

jifflemon
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by jifflemon » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:31 pm

The relays are best thought of as:

Ignition relay and a control relay.

The ignition relay powers EVERYTHING, from injections, sensors and fuel pump.

The control relay, controls the ignition relay. The control relay is switched by the ECU. So when the ECU "sees" engine activity (crank sensor) it earths the control relay and gives power to everything.

it is different in the early (fenix 1) ECU's as James as mentioned.

Its also worth pulling both relays out and comparing them. There's Type A and type B relays. If someone has swapped the relay previously they could have used the wrong sort.

andycc123
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by andycc123 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:48 pm

Thanks guys, I have a few new parts arriving this week including a new crank sensor.

I have a 1991 ES with a 1.7 B18EP engine. It was running fine Wednesday and didnt start Friday. No power to the fuel pump or coil.

The 2 relays under the dash are the same and interchangeable. Might that be an issue to consider?

jifflemon
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Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by jifflemon » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:38 pm

andycc123 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:48 pm
Thanks guys, I have a few new parts arriving this week including a new crank sensor.

I have a 1991 ES with a 1.7 B18EP engine. It was running fine Wednesday and didnt start Friday. No power to the fuel pump or coil.

The 2 relays under the dash are the same and interchangeable. Might that be an issue to consider?
Yes and no; Like I said, one relay controls the other.

If we assume the ignition relay was dead, you swap it for the good control relay - Excellent you now have ignition. But you don't. Because that ignition relay is switched by the control relay (which is dead).

andycc123
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:24 pm

Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by andycc123 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:19 pm

New parts arrived today and I've just thrown them on and I'm delighted to say that it fired up quite happily.

I feel confident to say the part that solved the issue was the crank position sensor. But I also replaced the coil and HT Leads. The dizzy cap and rotar arm were also replaced last week.

It's running and that's great. Thanks all for you help a d support. Really means a lot.

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:22 pm

:hopping:
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2003 Renault Avantime 3.0 V6 (Big Ren)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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dcwalker
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1101
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: York

Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by dcwalker » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:25 pm

andycc123 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:19 pm
New parts arrived today and I've just thrown them on and I'm delighted to say that it fired up quite happily.

I feel confident to say the part that solved the issue was the crank position sensor. But I also replaced the coil and HT Leads. The dizzy cap and rotar arm were also replaced last week.

It's running and that's great. Thanks all for you help a d support. Really means a lot.
Excellent news! Well done! :hopping:

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 Celebration 331 (plus 2004 C70 Collection & 1995 440 ES)
Previous: Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

Edmundpwb2
480 Newbie
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Re: Help needed. No start. No spark

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:14 am

andycc123 wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:19 pm
New parts arrived today and I've just thrown them on and I'm delighted to say that it fired up quite happily.

I feel confident to say the part that solved the issue was the crank position sensor. But I also replaced the coil and HT Leads. The dizzy cap and rotar arm were also replaced last week.

It's running and that's great. Thanks all for you help a d support. Really means a lot.
Jolly well done! Glad It worked out. :D

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