Ignition fault, car not starting

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phil480
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Littlehampton, West Sussex

Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by phil480 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:19 pm

Hi all,
I appear to have a fault in my ignition system somewhere. I'm hoping the weather isn't going to be too wet this weekend (not looking likely though) so I can start diagnosing the problem.

What is happening is, I turn the key and the dash lights up as usual and I hear the rumble from what I assume is the fuel pump priming. When I turn the key to start, nothing happens. The car was running okay about an hour or 2 before this happened. I have not driven anywhere, it was just sat with the engine running. I first suspected the battery had probably drained because I did have the door open and boot open at one point whilst I was replacing the drivers seatbelt arm and the centre trim around the boot lock, so the courtesy lights would have been on.
I've tried jump starting from a powerbank jump starter which didn't work, so I tried jump starting from my wifes car but with no joy.
The previous owner did say the battery was recently replaced. I have had a couple of occasions where it does sound quite weak when starting as if the battery was flat, also the indicator on the battery doesn't show green for healthy. I have got the battery out and charged it up, left indoors overnight and it had lost some charge by morning, so I think the battery is a dud.
I still should have been able to jump start though, so the battery isn't my only issue.

I have tried swapping the fuel pump and ignition relays over. It does feel like these click when I turn the ignition on, but that's as far as I can diagnose them with my limited knowlege.
I've tried the old trick of putting the car in gear and rock it back and forth if the starter motor could be stuck.
With it being dark in the evenings when I'm home from work, I'm limited to what I can do. I have a voltmeter and a basic understanding of how to use it, so I'll do my best to test things over the weekend.
As far as I can tell, all other electrics are working, including fog lights, pop up lights, blower, windows, radio etc.

If there's any suggestion for things I can try to help diagnose the problem, I'd be most appreciative.
I get the feeling that this is one of those stupidly simple things that are just hard to diagnose without the right knowlege.
I will update this post with any developments.
Current: 480 GT 2.0 '94 in Red
Previous: 480 ES 2.0 '93 in White K464SWP -Sold in 2009. Presumed dead

Edmundpwb2
480 Newbie
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 pm

Hello Phil
I also recently purchased a GT and had similar ignition issues. When you go to start the car is it turning over at all or literally no noise at all? Mine was driving around nicely then i left it after a short drive then couldn't start it again although the engine would turn. I had no spark or power to the coil. It turned out to be the crank sensor in the end. Although I carried out all the checks you mentioned.

phil480
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Littlehampton, West Sussex

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by phil480 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:35 pm

Edmundpwb2 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 pm
Hello Phil
I also recently purchased a GT and had similar ignition issues. When you go to start the car is it turning over at all or literally no noise at all? Mine was driving around nicely then i left it after a short drive then couldn't start it again although the engine would turn. I had no spark or power to the coil. It turned out to be the crank sensor in the end. Although I carried out all the checks you mentioned.
Hi Ed,
No noise at all, sounds like the starter doesn't even attempt to turn. Is the crank sensor easy to identify and get at?
Current: 480 GT 2.0 '94 in Red
Previous: 480 ES 2.0 '93 in White K464SWP -Sold in 2009. Presumed dead

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by Alan 480 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:14 pm

phil480 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:35 pm
Edmundpwb2 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 pm
Hello Phil
I also recently purchased a GT and had similar ignition issues. When you go to start the car is it turning over at all or literally no noise at all? Mine was driving around nicely then i left it after a short drive then couldn't start it again although the engine would turn. I had no spark or power to the coil. It turned out to be the crank sensor in the end. Although I carried out all the checks you mentioned.
Hi Ed,
No noise at all, sounds like the starter doesn't even attempt to turn. Is the crank sensor easy to identify and get at?
engine WILL turn over with duff crank sensor, just won't fire up, been there..
crank sensor is below teh dizzy, but leave it alone at this stage.
if you have a multi meter check battery voltage, usually if low all you get is a click, click , click as the starter tries to engage, voltage drops to damn all then recovers etc
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2 (1 x Normal, 1 x 'Celebration' ? ), C30 1.8ES, SS1

phil480
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Littlehampton, West Sussex

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by phil480 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:04 pm

Update: Fixed, and it was such a simple issue that I really should have found earlier :wall:
Seems that it was just a blown fuse that I overlooked initially. It was fuse 9 that had blown (marked Wiper Motors via CEM). I originally didn't check this because I could see that the wipers were working. After struggling with other diagnosis, I decided to check every fuse, and found the blown one.
All sorted now, thankfully!
Current: 480 GT 2.0 '94 in Red
Previous: 480 ES 2.0 '93 in White K464SWP -Sold in 2009. Presumed dead

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:52 pm

phil480 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:04 pm
Update: Fixed, and it was such a simple issue that I really should have found earlier :wall:
Seems that it was just a blown fuse that I overlooked initially. It was fuse 9 that had blown (marked Wiper Motors via CEM). I originally didn't check this because I could see that the wipers were working. After struggling with other diagnosis, I decided to check every fuse, and found the blown one.
All sorted now, thankfully!
on the upside at least you know the condition of all the fuses now?? :hopping:
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2 (1 x Normal, 1 x 'Celebration' ? ), C30 1.8ES, SS1

Edmundpwb2
480 Newbie
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by Edmundpwb2 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:20 pm

Well done Phil. Glad it didn't work out too bad or costly.

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dcwalker
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Location: York

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by dcwalker » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:29 pm

phil480 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:04 pm
Update: Fixed, and it was such a simple issue that I really should have found earlier :wall:
Seems that it was just a blown fuse that I overlooked initially. It was fuse 9 that had blown (marked Wiper Motors via CEM). I originally didn't check this because I could see that the wipers were working. After struggling with other diagnosis, I decided to check every fuse, and found the blown one.
All sorted now, thankfully!
Glad you have solved it and got the car started :)

I have no idea why fuse 9 being blown should affect whether the car will start though! Mind you, it's the fuse for both front & rear wiper motors so I would suggest it might be a good idea to find out why it was blown in the first place...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 Celebration 331 (plus 2004 C70 Collection & 1995 440 ES)
Previous: Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

jifflemon
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Posts: 1661
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 am

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by jifflemon » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:02 pm

dcwalker wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:29 pm
I have no idea why fuse 9 being blown should affect whether the car will start though! Mind you, it's the fuse for both front & rear wiper motors so I would suggest it might be a good idea to find out why it was blown in the first place...

David
I'm going to go with tailgate loom as the starting point....

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dragonflyjewels
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Location: Norfolk

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by dragonflyjewels » Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:48 pm

There again, it might be a car that no longer has things on the correct fuses. I've had several where previous owners have solved electrical faults with a bit of re-wiring and swapping round of which fuse does what. :badmood:
Sylvia

Snazzy - 1993 Paris Blue ES red dipstick 2.0i bought 2001
Lethal Lily - 1991 White Turbo
hubby has
Sven - 1994 Racing Green GT
Evil Eva - 1992 Paris Blue Turbo

phil480
Knows where Volvo is from
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Littlehampton, West Sussex

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by phil480 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:40 pm

Thanks all. What I really should do is take the fuse out again and see if it replicates the problem.

Boot hatch wiring does need attention as the cables are damaged. I had managed a bit of a repair to at least keep the wires separated and prevent any shorts. I've haven't got this sorted properly yet as the boot struts were not holding the lid up, making it awkward to work on. I've got some new struts on now which has made life much easier.
Current: 480 GT 2.0 '94 in Red
Previous: 480 ES 2.0 '93 in White K464SWP -Sold in 2009. Presumed dead

User avatar
dcwalker
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1082
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Location: York

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by dcwalker » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:10 am

jifflemon wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:02 pm
dcwalker wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:29 pm
I have no idea why fuse 9 being blown should affect whether the car will start though! Mind you, it's the fuse for both front & rear wiper motors so I would suggest it might be a good idea to find out why it was blown in the first place...

David
I'm going to go with tailgate loom as the starting point....
Based on Phil's last post I am 100% with you on that suggestion...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 Celebration 331 (plus 2004 C70 Collection & 1995 440 ES)
Previous: Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1661
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:03 am

Re: Ignition fault, car not starting

Post by jifflemon » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:24 am

phil480 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:40 pm
Thanks all. What I really should do is take the fuse out again and see if it replicates the problem.

Boot hatch wiring does need attention as the cables are damaged. I had managed a bit of a repair to at least keep the wires separated and prevent any shorts. I've haven't got this sorted properly yet as the boot struts were not holding the lid up, making it awkward to work on. I've got some new struts on now which has made life much easier.
Its actually easier to pull the entire lid off.... assuming you've got somewhere dry to keep the car whilst you repair!

The wiring unclips under the headlining (one for pin plug, i single plug), then the tailgate undoes with two bolts, and pop of the struts. Makes it MUCH easier to work on!

I'll point out now that all the tailgate wiring is black.... Deep joy!They are numbered on ends of the wiring, but it may have rubbed off. :D

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