cold ok. warm: 1200rpm, steady. have to start 2x now ?

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:20 pm

well, I was probably one of the first to open the idler valve, and it worked for more than two years. Think I have to check again.

I feel the idler valve itselves is quit warm, sometimes more than handwarm. Maybe its the engines radiation ? I even have planns to make a heatshield.Maybe it expands and runs stuck.

spraying wd40 in the valve don't work for long anymore.

am thingking of opening it again (adough it is not meant to)

Guess if it was the I.v. the idle was not that steady. hmm....

Heard about two warmth sensors in the block, one for the info center, one for the ECU/idler valve. Wher exactly is this last one positionated. I cannot find it. I see one in the front of the engine, close by the i.v. on the top rh corner of the block.(this is the infocenterone?)

the funny coincidence is that as i start the car cold it doesn't run ok the first second, and mostly stalls. than i have to run the starter long to get it on in a second try. after this, before on working temp. it runs ok....
this happens since i have this 1200 rpm warm problem...

maybe you people have any experience with these sympthoms? Any idea's welcome !

luck
JPF

MatBat · Post by **MatBat** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:27 pm

could be fuel pressure, or a whole host of things, cant you replace the idler valve?

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:03 pm

I don't grow hundreds of euro's on my back. and I don't buy scrappy in this case: someone else his grief, with the same dirt problem.

well, in a way, i have some options to investigate

Luck
JPF

chris1roll · Post by **chris1roll** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:27 pm

The infocentre sensor is the rear one, its above where the pipes come out of the engine to go to the heater, pretty much opposite the front one.
So you already have found the ECU one.

gerrsvolvo · Post by **gerrsvolvo** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:11 am

Ho volovfox
do you also have problems starting the enigine when warm.
Say after refueling at a tankstation?
If so than it is most probably the temperature sensor from the motormagement.
This sensor is in located oposite of the sensor for the infocemter.
Just under the clamp that hold the sparkplugleads in where the idlervalve is on the ES (non turboÂ´s).

Good luck
gerrsvolvo

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:01 pm

thanks chriss, for pointing me out where the exact sensor is.

yes gerrs volvo, the car started very bad as on normal temp.

What I did uptil now is, I dismantelled the stepper motor (idler motor again, but this time the valve too. It has been the hassle earlier, since the mark on is says '94 (its an 88 turbo) I took the electomotors housing off about twoo years ago, with good results. Now I also dismantelled the valve housing (gently knocked out the shaft) and cleaned the black, sticky slurry out. Installed it again with the vice(bankschoef ?) as press and used lots of thin oil. (removed some scratshes too, with fine sand paper)

There was again a lot of black dirt in the steppermotors housing. Cleaned the drag contacts and (fine)sand papaered the dammaged collector.

I am very conficent about the steppermotor job.

I also made a heat shield out of fire free board (asbestos free) to prevent it for getting hot again from the engine. No eford, no dammage.

Now the car starts cold at 800 in stead of 1000 revs.

but driveing the car on temperature (2 km highway) the revs still stick at 1400 revs.

As running , pulling the plug of the correct heat sensor don't change anything.
Pulling the plug on the stepper, no change (so its nicely close:))

but pulling the plug below the throttle valve as running means a rev drop of 200 ! (this is still too much as it still is 1200)

I heard of people cleaning the throttle housing..... For what reason was this ?

Maybe I dammaged something in the boosterhousing ? I opened it up genly to wonder what was all in there

(no kidding I always cursed at people who wanted to update tork and power that the car was powerfull enough

) the Haas eprom says 150 hp, 235 Nm tork.!

the connector is on ok though...

so the idle is still steady (for a renault that is) ok as cold, but 1400 as hot.

any idea's i have forgotten ?

thanks

luck
jpf

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:20 pm

well, this was a worthwile job, cleaning the throttle housing.

but it did not help my problem

its is still there, it is even slightly worse.
the first time the engine starts, but runs very bad, and stalls after a minute.
the second time the engine doesn't start at all.
the third time it runs, and at an acceptable rpm of 800 or so,

than, if it gets hot it sticks at 1200 rpm.

I am thinking something electrical, and that the ecu is running on its emergency programm.

the ecu and its connector look good. (could not see any numberings)

I guess I have a F motor, not an FT. This because I have a turbo, purple ecu and powerboost AND a heat sensor. (FT's don't)

next free hours i am spending measuring the resistance in the wiring, and more important: the heat sensor.

the problem is definatelly heat related.

(wish me) luck

JPF

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:40 pm

well, the circle around the problem is getting tighter.

went out yesterday in Aachen,Germany, and after a 30 min. highway drive, on which some part i did 205 km/h at 5800 rpm (they really altered the gear ratio at this "new" reinforced gearbox?)

I measured the resistance on the ECU heat sensor. it was 622 Ohm, with a temp of more than 85 degrees C. This morning, cold I measured only 6,25 Ohm.

I cannot assume to compare these value's with the non turbo heat sensors (I have an "F" engine, instead of "FT" ???) If I can, the sensor is no good.

one other thing: the engine was red hot after a 205 km/h drive in the starfish' parkinglot and doing a steady 1500 rmp idle. but pushing brake(lights) and doing the pops up and down got the idle to move ! and more than 200 revs down for a sec.

-does this mean there is a ground or feed problem ? Maybe this can be normal?

- how are the restisance values for the heat sensor according to VADIS (and how can i get a copy ?)

-where can i read the engine serial, and does it have codes like "F" or "FT"??

luck
JPF

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:01 pm

thanks for the help

but i have sorted it. i think.

the problem had more causes.

the throttle housing needed a clean (and I did not screw back the bypass at first)

the stepper motor needed a clean. So I did. But it was pefectly clean, but as putting it gently back together i have bent one of the drag contacts inside. so aldough the valve mecanically went better than new, there was no electricity on 1/3 th of the rotor.

I have seen original workshop handbooks (no i was not allowed to copy them

) mentioning a electrical good stepper motor has to have 44 Ohms between the two outer contacts. so it has now, after opening it again.

aldough i am not yet sure about the cold start, it warm starts fine now, has a normal rev warm. you can see the idler valve work in the rev counter.

doubting the ecu heat sensor was a mistake : you have to measure the Ohm's between one of the two contacts and ground, not between eachother. this sensor has three contacts in the schedule : one is the ground where it is screwed in testing this was the sensor was OK.

hope this story ended for now.

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:30 am

nope, it did not., aldough the stepper is working now. the revs come back, aldough slow, hot or cold.

the bad starting stays. at first the engine stalls after 2 sec. running, then it is not startable. I have to keep the ignition off about one or two minutes, and it starts like a new car.

as I cleaned my tools late at night I also found a loose set of wires, from radiator to fire wall, one black, one red, in a heatpreventing sock. there was even current on em more than 12 volts on, and about 1.6 off. the wires looked as they were cut with a sidecutter

I had absolutely no idea were they were from, so i taped them.

It took me very long to see in the electrical diagram were they could have been headded. It seems that the ony red and black wires in the engine bay loom are those from the injector heat collector ( I have injector cooling) and the turbo heat collector. Because they are on the relay for the aux pump but also the whole injector/ignition power supply I might have found the bugger.

I am going for that one tomorow.

gerrsvolvo · Post by **gerrsvolvo** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:13 am

Hi Volvofox
I am pretty sure it is the temperaturesensor for the motormanagement.

I had the same symptoms on my car (1987 ES).
when cold not starting at one go at least two times trying to start before the enine kept running.
when I anted to refuel and I forgot to let the engine keeping on running I he would not start I had to keep the sartermotor turning the engine over for a (really) long time before it would start. Sometimes flooring the accelarator (gaspedaal) would help a little.

After fitting a new sensor the startingis as reborn.

Why these problems?
because the motormanagment is so planned that when it does not get a signal that the engine is hot the injectors work as if it is cold and gives twice the ammount af fuel. (one injection per two engine cycles isntead of one injection per four engine cycles)

Try it and you wil see it.
Good luck
Gerrsvolvo

Tomorrow departing with the 480 for a Cristmas time in theDolomites.

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:05 pm

Hi, an old friend, ex volvo dealer employee, and self employed mecannic has the original workshop books for 480 and measured both the ECU heat sensor pinns to earth and said they were whitin specs. Also the sensor is too expensive to guess.

I found were the broken wire goes: to the sensor near the turbo, the one on the "line" I am going to "kallen" (volvo dealer) tomorrow and order a new one, as the old one is sheared of and destroyed.

thanks

JPF