Engine removal

All the information you need on engine-problems is here. The engine includes the Turbo-charger, airco and everything else you'll find under the bonnet.

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Optimistic
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Engine removal

Post by Optimistic » Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:05 pm

hello,

My 480 turbo (with ac) has now seemed to have leaked coolant from the mechanical water pump. it is also leaking oil from the valve gasket and the oil pan. The belts are also an unknown.

I would like to ask for advice, is removing the engine an overkill? I have read and seen how little space there is for changing the beats.
Or should I keep the engine in the car.

Thanks
92' TT-T

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Jay-Kay-Em
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Re: Engine removal

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:37 pm

Hi,

The tasks you mention, cambelt, oil pan, water pump etc. are all engine in situ jobs. It does, like you say, seem overkill in the first instance.

Engine removal and the “weighing up” to do so, is probably more down to your facilities, tooling, skills and situation.

Whilst it’s out, you face a new set of questions. What’s that rear engine mount like? Is there corrosion near the front anti-roll bar mounts? How’s the oil feed line for the turbo looking like? When did it last have a clutch? Heater hoses?

It’s very wise to ask all those questions (and more) when the engine is out, but you can see how this snowballs!

Also, how long can you live with a dead car, because there is no doubt engine removal will always make you spot something extra that needs doing. That stretches project time because you can’t just pop down ECP and get what you need. It may mean the car is stranded without a powertrain until you source parts, even perhaps from overseas, or a breaker.

Best wishes with whatever you decide.
Jay-Kay-Em
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jifflemon
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Re: Engine removal

Post by jifflemon » Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:17 am

Jay Kay makes some very valid points. Preparation is key.

Are you running the car currently? How long can you be without it? I'd say with proper preparation, replacing the belts, water pump and gaskets is easily done over a weekend, leaving the engine in the car, IF you're well prepared.

I would:
Remove the power steering pump and alternator (so make sure you order type F fluid for the pump), the coolant tank and washer bottle. This creates a lot more space to do the timing belt - it's not essential, but makes access a whole lot easier.
Belts and water pump have been covered quite a few times, so nothing too challenging there.

Oil pan just needs the brace removing from underneath. Obviously make sure you have a gasket for it.
Valve gasket - Removing the intake plenum means you'll need the middle gasket.

I'd probably also start and end the process with a good bit of engine bay cleaning - always nicer to work on clean things!

Now all of the above assumes that the car is in frequent use. If the car is still something of an unknown quantity, I'd be probing around the engine bay looking for the potential faults JKM mentioned. As I said at the beginning - Preparation is key.

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brinkie
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Re: Engine removal

Post by brinkie » Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:08 pm

Given you have a fair amount of time and skills, give the cilinder head and valves a good cleanup as well. Turbo exhaust valves are of a special, sodium-filled kind so probably unobtainium, but you can grind the valves and valve seats to make them smooth again and replace the valve stems, then adjust valve clearance properly. As far as I know, everything in the lower engine block is standard Renault and used in hundreds of thousands of cars, so things like crankshaft bearings should be easy to find.
The least you should do once the engine is out, is to replace all oil seals (camshaft and crankshaft)

You can also try and take the gearbox apart and replace all seals in there. They are prone to leak and will subsequently die of oil starvation.

On the other hand, I don't know how the rest of the car looks like. If it's a tatty, rusty project car, it will probably be overkill to overhaul the engine.
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

Optimistic
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Re: Engine removal

Post by Optimistic » Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:28 pm

so I apologies, for my lack of information.

I am okay wit not having the car for an unknown amount of time. My priority is to fix as many things i can at once so i can enjoy driving the car this summer.
Full list of things i want to check / change

Vacuum leak and rough idle ( idle air controller has been replaced i have been told), i have changed the spark plugs with the correct ones for the engine as i have found the part number in the forum, the coil has also been replaced by the previous owner so that is ok ( a 480 owner told me its is the good one?),

Engine moves/ swings when off throttle or loosing speed, so engine mounts need to be looked at, front ones look good, the side shock absorber one looks dead, I don't know about the other ones,

Valve cover is leaking at the oil filler side,

Engine pan and the back of the motor has oil residue-but no visible puddles/leaks,

I would maybe port the intake and exhaust?

The head gasket has been replaced i have been told, but i dont know why?

Both beats need to be changed along with the pullies, there is a sound coming from one of them, like a dying bearing, more noticeable on startup, less when the car is hot,
Power steering fluid is leaking from somewhere, the lines are oily,

Also the throw out bearing wasn't replaced when they did the clutch so I got one.

I can spend a lot of time working on the car, it is in great condition. there was a rust hole that i have fixed so only rust i have seen is surface rust on the front frame rails, and in the boot at the toolbox spare wheel pockets, it is about a 5x5cm area, everything else is good on the car.

my plan is to restore and modify the car to my liking now that I have the roboumod, the car goes fast, but doesn't corner as well as it should I think, of topic but I have now KAW springs, shocks i need to order new, old ones are dead eiven tho the car feels great driving, sway bar end links also shot, I would also like to change all of the bushes to poly ones from classic swede.
Last edited by Optimistic on Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
92' TT-T

Alan 480
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Re: Engine removal

Post by Alan 480 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:30 pm

nowtt to add to above, but all of those tasks are 'pretty' easy with engine left in place, that way you can stop/start as you feel the need and can plan the cash outlay!!!

if it was me I'd be leaving engine in place
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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Re: Engine removal

Post by jifflemon » Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:50 pm

Optimistic wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:28 pm
so I apologies, for my lack of information.

I am okay wit not having the car for an unknown amount of time. My priority is to fix as many things i can at once so i can enjoy driving the car this summer.
With that in mind, I'd focus on the priority stuff, enjoy the car in the summer as it will add to your winter "to do" list.

Optimistic wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:28 pm
I would maybe port the intake and exhaust?
Utterly pointless on a turbo car - You've got a whopping big fan forcing air down there at nearly 1 bar of pressure. A bit of porting isn't going do a thing!
Optimistic wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:28 pm
Engine moves/ swings when off throttle or loosing speed, so engine mounts need to be looked at, front ones look good, the side shock absorber one looks dead, I don't know about the other ones,
That sounds like the infamous rear engine mount has blown out.

For me, I'd focus on Belts, engine mount and the running issues. You'll naturally find more things to fix as you use the car.

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Re: Engine removal

Post by Optimistic » Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:26 am

Well, as of yesterday the engine is out of the car.
The rear transmission mount is dead, all others are quite good.
Everything came out quite well, the brake booster abs system was in the way a little bit, but I plan on swaping to a normal vacuum.booster setup, as this one doesn't work.
Also I have a question, how can I remove the AC compressor and still have the car running, as the alternator is driven off the compressor. Is there another alternator pully and shorter belt?
In the mean time I will be re gasket-ing if that Is eiven a word all old and leaky rubber gaskets and dead horses for vacuum and intake to the turbo, along with other stuff I found.
92' TT-T

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Re: Engine removal

Post by Alan 480 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:42 am

Optimistic wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:26 am
Well, as of yesterday the engine is out of the car.
The rear transmission mount is dead, all others are quite good.


Also I have a question, how can I remove the AC compressor and still have the car running, as the alternator is driven off the compressor. Is there another alternator pully and shorter belt?
In the mean time I will be re gasket-ing if that Is eiven a word all old and leaky rubber gaskets and dead horses for vacuum and intake to the turbo, along with other stuff I found.
rear mount failure is 'normal' JAY Kay found an alternative as the VOLVO is NLA , regardless of what he websites will say . .. .

to use the car without the AC pump then you need to shuffle lots of items around, pipes fro power steering etc so best to just leave it in there 'unused'
Alan

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jifflemon
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Re: Engine removal

Post by jifflemon » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:06 pm

Optimistic wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:26 am
Well, as of yesterday the engine is out of the car.
The rear transmission mount is dead, all others are quite good.
Everything came out quite well, the brake booster abs system was in the way a little bit, but I plan on swaping to a normal vacuum.booster setup, as this one doesn't work.
I'd urge you to go read Jay Kay Em's thread. You have to remove everything from the ABS system if you want the car to pass a UK MOT. (I may be wrongly assuming your UK based?)
Optimistic wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:26 am
Also I have a question, how can I remove the AC compressor and still have the car running, as the alternator is driven off the compressor. Is there another alternator pully and shorter belt?
You can just leave the AC compressor in place - It's electrically activated, so whilst it's not engaged, the compressor will just freewheel. You could convert to a none AC setup, but you'd have to swap power steering pump and lines.

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Re: Engine removal

Post by Alan 480 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:01 pm

jifflemon wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:06 pm
I'd urge you to go read Jay Kay Em's thread. You have to remove everything from the ABS system if you want the car to pass a UK MOT. (I may be wrongly assuming your UK based?)
I'd be VERY canny about doing so, not due the yes/no I'd really like ABS, but be very very careful of the wording of the MoT regulations (applies to a UK MoT)

it might have some caveat about 'where originally fitted', if ABS was optional then you are probably OK, but if by that date it was 'standard' a massive can of worms.

those of more afficionados standing can confirm/deny when it became 'standard' fitting?
it also depends maybe on the knowledge of your MoT tester :-)
Alan

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Re: Engine removal

Post by Jay-Kay-Em » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:46 pm

Hi Alan,

No can of worms about it. The MoT manual (UK) is available on .GOV here.

Section 1.6 (Brakes)

I quote :

If the ABS has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. This does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component, such as a brake disc or drive shaft.

It’s not permissible to remove or disable the ABS from a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 2010. Not all vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2010 will have ABS, so the failure only applies where the system has obviously been removed.


I don't see any ambiguity in the above. Pre 2010 then it's fair game.

This is a subject us as a community need to face head-on because when even wheel speed sensors are unavailable, you're screwed!

Just make sure you keep (or install) in-line rear bias valves.

You don't want your rear axle locking up first!
Jay-Kay-Em
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Click here for My 480 Turbo Diary
Click here for My Cars

Optimistic
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Re: Engine removal

Post by Optimistic » Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:26 am

Well i have an Mot check, but I think it's better to not have abs than no brakes at all. I am unsure what died, as the abs had worked before, but for a short time after bleeding the brakes correctly.
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Re: Engine removal

Post by Alan 480 » Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:23 pm

Jay-Kay-Em wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:46 pm
Hi Alan,

No can of worms about it. The MoT manual (UK) is available on .GOV here.

Section 1.6 (Brakes)

I quote :

If the ABS has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. This does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component, such as a brake disc or drive shaft.

It’s not permissible to remove or disable the ABS from a vehicle first used on or after 1 January 2010. Not all vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2010 will have ABS, so the failure only applies where the system has obviously been removed.


I don't see any ambiguity in the above. Pre 2010 then it's fair game.

This is a subject us as a community need to face head-on because when even wheel speed sensors are unavailable, you're screwed!

Just make sure you keep (or install) in-line rear bias valves.

You don't want your rear axle locking up first!
Thanks to clarify I knew there was a section about what was and not 'removable', and a time frame

I think power steering is another of those 'if fitted , or would have been fitted, it must work'?

and concur about the lack of 'bespoke' components could render a car 'scrap' :(
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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