Volvo 480 Club Europe

Hi

I am looking for some dimensions for the B18FT powerplant and some of it's surroundings.

What's the width between the mounting bolts for the subframe?
What's the "footprint" of the engine (as in how much space must there be to fit the engine and gearbox between the frame)?
What's the outer distance between the hubs (the width of the front end minus wheels)
What's the height of the entire engine installation bottom of oil-pan to top of manifold

This is purely R-n-D at the moment so therefore only theoretically a part of the volvo 480 community

Regards,

While I am no expert, so cannot directly help you, I am intrigued as to what this R&D project is, do you mind explaining a bit more?

sounds interesting whatever it is!

the project falls into the category of what to do with the money and time that should be better spent elsewhere...


my brother in law has an old mk1 renault 5, which has this really wierd front end that does not accept much in the ways of engine upgrades, where as the mk2 are much closer to drop-in compatible with the b18ft.

the sensible thing to do would be to not try and fit a transverse engine into a car that was built for a longitude mounted engine with the gearbox placed in front of the engine....

so enter the massive ammount of research required to determine if this is anything other than a crazy idea

It's a "crazy idea" that people on this forum would help you with information so that yet another of our engines can be ripped out and put in another fucking Renault. ‎

Have a look at motorbike engines fitted to minis, some interesting work there.

greven wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:41 pm

the project falls into the category of what to do with the money and time that should be better spent elsewhere...


my brother in law has an old mk1 renault 5, which has this really wierd front end that does not accept much in the ways of engine upgrades, where as the mk2 are much closer to drop-in compatible with the b18ft.

the sensible thing to do would be to not try and fit a transverse engine into a car that was built for a longitude mounted engine with the gearbox placed in front of the engine....

so enter the massive ammount of research required to determine if this is anything other than a crazy idea

As a mk1 Renault 5 owner many, many years ago, I can tell you now that it’s a none starter. Mk1 5’s are a north south configuration, with the gearbox up front. The b18 isn’t going to mate up with the r5 box, you’re also going to have the timing belt wedged against the bulkhead, and the alternator sat where your brake cylinder should be.

You’d better finding a 5 GT turbo engine which at least shared the same block, but even then, your going to have to rebuild it into the r5 block, have the GTT camshaft profile copied and ground onto your cam (as that’s what drives the water pump/alternator). In short, a massively huge and complicated affair.

And if your trying to convert it to transverse, your onto even more of a none starter....

If you want the performance of the 480 turbo engine, you'd be much better off with it in a 480 - the tuning on it was designed specifically to suit the 480's superior roadholding abilities. If you want to drive a Renault stick to the lesser engine designed for it. I take it you've never driven a 480.

jamescarruthers wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:29 pm

It's a "crazy idea" that people on this forum would help you with information so that yet another of our engines can be ripped out and put in another f*cking Renault. ‎

I am genuinely surprised. I honestly thought the days of the B18FT going in Renault 5's were over.

Only the other day it was discussed on here that the cars have become so old and collectable now, both 5's and 480's, why would anyone cannibalise both of them in 2020?

I mean, how many are left now to obtain!?! I think we are down to 30 taxed 480 Turbos now?

If you see a 480 Turbo moving under its own steam it is a genuine miracle considering all the people that have been after its flesh over the last thirty years. Terrible build quality from day 1, poor dealer after-sales in the early years. Terrible corrosion. The drying up of parts. Volvo (Ford) washing its hands in 2000. Then the GOV scrappage scheme. Then, on top of that, the Renault 5 community decimating numbers.

When I look at mine it genuinely makes me shudder worrying about FT spare parts. Head gaskets, two ECUs, seals, bearings, the later improved clutch... I think if I was doing an engine transplant, I would at least want parts availability to be one less headache.

I can see why the engine made donor sense in the late 90's and early 2000s, but surely there are easier options today?

I wish you well in your endeavours, but I honestly believe a spare B18FT is better left for the 480 community to preserve the car in which it came.

I see that I've touched on some sensitive issues, I will not pursue this venture further here.

is it really that bad with spare parts for the b18ft block? in that case I feel bad for you. Coming from the first gen Mazda rx7 crowd I know what it's like.

Take care!

Mmmm a Wankel engine in a 480, who has considered that

Without some really interesting fabrications a wankel in a 480 would probably be less than easy.. I don't know of any successful transverse installation of a 13b engines but haven't really looked that hard either tbh.

greven wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:40 pm

I see that I've touched on some sensitive issues, I will not pursue this venture further here.

is it really that bad with spare parts for the b18ft block? in that case I feel bad for you. Coming from the first gen Mazda rx7 crowd I know what it's like.

Take care!

Personally I have a B18E (N/A) car which is basically a Renault 11 but more aerodynamic, powerful and better balanced, as such it shares s lot of parts with other FrenchTat classics. However, due to the modding brigade, enging breakers, scrappage and what not, the Turbos are much harder to find, and a lot more of the parts unobtainable, or really difficult. Project and donor cars do come up every so often but as everyone needs the same parts...

I am glad you have seen 'the light' so to speak, and seem a nice chap, have you thought about getting a 480, they are actually very nice to drive, and would look good alongside an RX7

When I think engine transplants into small cars, I just think BMW S1000RR..... Lightweight, compact, powerful, plentiful, easy parts and enough RPM to send you to cloud 9.

Thinking outside the box, if you really want to keep a 'Renault' theme, isn't the current Twingo III a three cylinder turbo? Must be a really compact unit as its rear mounted. The good thing about that is the majority of CAT-C salvage are front end smashes, so the rear of the car is undamaged....

EDIT - I'm now wasting the morning on Wikipedia... Twingo II has a 1.2 turbo D4FT... and the Twingo II RS133 was a K4M (133 bhp). I can't help but think these engines are more compact, more plentiful and with greater spare parts availability than B18FT.

MisterH wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:36 am

I am glad you have seen 'the light' so to speak, and seem a nice chap, have you thought about getting a 480, they are actually very nice to drive, and would look good alongside an RX7

No I have not considered that, and by the look of thing regarding spare parts it probably will never be up for contemplation... I'll leave whatever remains of the 440/460/480 cars and engines and spare parts to those who've fallen in love with the cars.

The Renault 5 will likely be getting a F4Rt engine from a Laguna and a Clio gearbox instead, it is supposedly just as easy as the b18ft swap (which in our case means not easy at all given that our project car is an mk1).

Rules wise we can get away with putting an engine with at most 180-200kw in the renault if we stiffen the chassis enough and provide stopping power

greven wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:19 pm

MisterH wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:36 am

I am glad you have seen 'the light' so to speak, and seem a nice chap, have you thought about getting a 480, they are actually very nice to drive, and would look good alongside an RX7

No I have not considered that, and by the look of thing regarding spare parts it probably will never be up for contemplation... I'll leave whatever remains of the 440/460/480 cars and engines and spare parts to those who've fallen in love with the cars.

The Renault 5 will likely be getting a F4Rt engine from a Laguna and a Clio gearbox instead, it is supposedly just as easy as the b18ft swap (which in our case means not easy at all given that our project car is an mk1).

Rules wise we can get away with putting an engine with at most 180-200kw in the renault if we stiffen the chassis enough and provide stopping power

Well, I am glad you are honest, and honourable it seems. Best of luck with the project, I am sure you will have an ace of a car by the time you've finished!

I am not an out and out 480 'fanatic' but I do tend to agree with the above points,
why take a serviceable car remove the engine and junk the rest, there are far more mundane Renaults out there as a donor?

Also a couple of points to note

if you think that there is enough space within/between the inner wings maybe think again have a look at this photo keep going and you will find the piccy where engine removal is beng discussed. .. .

5mm either side !!!
https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... 20#p219527

then if you decide it must be a Renault engine, you might as well go the whole hog and use a Clio sport engine, as fitted by Cranna, a much newer item and even more poke

https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... 70#p217979

Twngo, Fiat 500 are narrower engines and might fit within the wings (might) and transplant teh whole subframe from the 500? and 500 came in ABARTH tune

Alan 480 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:16 pm

I am not an out and out 480 'fanatic' but I do tend to agree with the above points,
why take a serviceable car remove the engine and junk the rest, there are far more mundane Renaults out there as a donor?

To be honest, the engine we had our eyes on is allready located at a junkyard it was pulled from a 440.

Alan 480 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:16 pm

Also a couple of points to note

if you think that there is enough space within/between the inner wings maybe think again have a look at this photo keep going and you will find the piccy where engine removal is beng discussed. .. .

a b18ft and a f4rt engine both require the entire front to be cut at the firewall and a new front frame be built so no the mk1 does not have even 1mm to spare..

Alan 480 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:16 pm

Twngo, Fiat 500 are narrower engines and might fit within the wings (might) and transplant teh whole subframe from the 500? and 500 came in ABARTH tune

An abarth 500/renault 5 hybrid would certainly be entertaining.

As I said, as a Renault man in a previous life if you really wanted to do something crazy, take the nod from Renault, and go mid-mounted v6.

jifflemon wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:41 pm

As I said, as a Renault man in a previous life if you really wanted to do something crazy, take the nod from Renault, and go mid-mounted v6.

yes easier to fit in the back as avoids issues with torque steer, wheel spin etc etc

Renault 6R4 does sound appealing ? ? ?? although I'm sure group 1 were banned a few years ago