Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

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Shane_398
Started learning about 480
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm
Location: Atherton, Manchester

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Shane_398 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:22 pm

I will go for a ride out tomorrow, Make sure the car repeats the fault then read the codes again and see what comes up... knowing my luck it'll run fine and throw nothing up :rofl: :wall:
Shane

95, 480 Celebration 398/480. 2007-Present day
07, Jeep Cherokee 2.8CRD Limited. 2016-Present day
02, Astra 1.6 8v 2005-17
01, Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD Orvis
95, 460 Si 1.8i 2006-08
98, Astra 2.0 DTI Estate
91, 440 1.7GLE 2006
90, Peugeot405 Si 2004/5

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:26 pm

They should be stored until either the battery or ECU is disconnected
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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WRDendy
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 325
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Location: Oxford

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by WRDendy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:50 pm

There's a useful document regarding fault codes here. It suggests that some codes might only appear "while the vehicle is driven and short time afterwards". Sadly, it doesn't go into detail about the protocol for getting under the bonnet and operating the diagnostics box while the car is in motion :nuts:
Formerly known as 'Jaster'
Current: '94 GT & '88 ES
Former: '89 ES

Shane_398
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm
Location: Atherton, Manchester

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Shane_398 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:36 pm

Evening all, Just a quick update:

I've been out today and done what i said i was going to do, Well apart from the hoovering bit :wink:

So after about 45 minutes of being out and about i put my foot down and lo and behold there it was "Chug Chug, pop, bang" I pulled into a pub car park as soon as i could and popped the bonnet and read the fuel fault codes and hey presto out popped 1.2.2 which relates to the "Air Temperature Sensor".

I've had a quick look at it and it obviously it's not designed to come apart but did look quite generic as though it fits other makes and models not just Volvo. So i nipped down to my local car shop showed him the sensor and i have ordered a new one that will arrive tomorrow and as you all know it only takes a minute to change over.

So I'm hoping this could be the start of the end for this particular niggle there will be plenty more i'm sure in the future :lol:

I'll keep you posted with how i get on.
Shane

95, 480 Celebration 398/480. 2007-Present day
07, Jeep Cherokee 2.8CRD Limited. 2016-Present day
02, Astra 1.6 8v 2005-17
01, Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD Orvis
95, 460 Si 1.8i 2006-08
98, Astra 2.0 DTI Estate
91, 440 1.7GLE 2006
90, Peugeot405 Si 2004/5

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:20 am

Image
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:20 am

Image
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:24 am

So, you get the idea from above but I'd say Volvo are being a little belt and braces OTT and asking you to measure at the ECU plug as the first job. ‎

Actually, I don't think you will be able to measure voltage across pins 14 and 17 without a breakout box, so forget the first operation.

I'd measure the resistance at the connector to the temperature sensor first and see if it is in limits. 

If the sensor is good then ring the wires out (check for continuity‎ between the plug in the engine bay and the ECU connector. Get someone to give things a wiggle as you check to be sure.

Fingers crossed it is just the sensor has died and you have an easy replacement.

If you measure the resistance of the sensor directly first, you will prove if ‎you have a dead sensor pretty quickly. (Your car is 'other' is it isn't Fenix 1 or a B18U).

Wiring checks at the ECU would be wise if you find your sensor working well as it could be a wiring fault which only shows with heat or engine movement, etc.‎
Last edited by jamescarruthers on Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:35 am

Just to help confirm you have the correct sensor, the original was Volvo P/N: 3467813‎ or 3467813-6. It should be readily available as you are correct in assuming it fits other cars.

Shown as item 32 here. By the way you can download the parts catalogue from the main club site if you want a copy. ‎

Oh, and make sure you clear that code before you test the car with your new sensor!
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Shane_398
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm
Location: Atherton, Manchester

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Shane_398 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:37 pm

Hey all,

Just a quick update about the new Air Temprature Sensor...

I't hasn't made a difference :badmood:
Shane

95, 480 Celebration 398/480. 2007-Present day
07, Jeep Cherokee 2.8CRD Limited. 2016-Present day
02, Astra 1.6 8v 2005-17
01, Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD Orvis
95, 460 Si 1.8i 2006-08
98, Astra 2.0 DTI Estate
91, 440 1.7GLE 2006
90, Peugeot405 Si 2004/5

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:04 pm

Shane_398 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:37 pm
Hey all,

Just a quick update about the new Air Temprature Sensor...

I't hasn't made a difference :badmood:
That's a shame. ‎Did you get a chance to get the code read out again and was it cleared after last time?

If you are still getting the same code then I'd say you need to rule out a wiring problem between the sensor and the ECU. How about next, you disconnect the battery, pop the ECU plug off and two two continuity checks, whilst getting someone to wiggle the loom a bit, particularly at the plug end?‎

Check for continuity:
between pin A of the ‎intake temperature sensor and pin 17 of the ECU plug
between ‎pin B of the intake temperature sensor and pin 14 of the ECU plug
If there are fluctuating continuity values then you've have bad wiring which you can repair-- it's going to be more likely broken at the sensor plug end.‎

Also, the car should run fine with this intake temperature sensor disconnected. It won't go crazy without a value, it will do a reasonableness check, realise it is open circuit and use default values (as described in the book I photographed earlier). So, how about, after doing the continuity check, if that isn't conclusive, you drive about with the sensor disconnected for a while and see if the fault goes away. If it doesn't then the problem lies else where I'd say.

***‎

Failing that, we need to be thinking about what could LOOK like a bad intake temperature sensor value to the ECU.‎ I'm out of ideas on that front though!
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Shane_398
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm
Location: Atherton, Manchester

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Shane_398 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:58 am

Morning James,

Apologies for the late response i have been quite busy of late so i haven't had chance to look at the car much, Plus it has been bitterly cold here up north...

Where is the ECU located on a 95 celeb ? i can't find anything other the big silver box at the side of the diagnostic box under the bonnet tia.
Shane

95, 480 Celebration 398/480. 2007-Present day
07, Jeep Cherokee 2.8CRD Limited. 2016-Present day
02, Astra 1.6 8v 2005-17
01, Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD Orvis
95, 460 Si 1.8i 2006-08
98, Astra 2.0 DTI Estate
91, 440 1.7GLE 2006
90, Peugeot405 Si 2004/5

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:34 am

It is in the L/H (driver's side in UK) footwell, in the upright outboard side panel. (It looks the same as the panel with the bonnet release in on the other side).

The big silver box in the engine bay near the suspension turret is your ABS computer.

It could be that the air temperature sensor is unrelated to your fault, but it is good to get that bit working again. 



1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Alan 480 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:56 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:34 am
It is in the L/H (driver's side in UK) footwell, in the upright outboard side panel. (It looks the same as the panel with the bonnet release in on the other side).

surely that's the RHS?? :wink:
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:10 pm

Oh shit, you've caught me again getting my left and right confused Alan, hahaha!

To conform, the engine computer is indeed in the R/H footwell, Alan is right.‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:53 pm

Hi Shane,

Did you get sorted with this running problem? I've just realised that I couldn't find the spare regulator (I had it in my hand only a week earlier) and I forgot to tell you, sorry!
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Shane_398
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm
Location: Atherton, Manchester

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Shane_398 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:08 am

Hello James, Apologies for the extremely late reply I've not stopped this last month or so..... :?

Unfortunately I haven't yet got to the bottom of it, the next thing I was going to look into was the fuel pressure regulator. If that turns out to be ok I'm not sure where to go after that ??

It would be nice to get it sorted before the show season but if not it doesn't stop me using it in the mean time I will just have to see how it behaves when the weather gets warmer I won't give up on it I've had it to long... Must be mad :wall:

Many thanks
Shane

95, 480 Celebration 398/480. 2007-Present day
07, Jeep Cherokee 2.8CRD Limited. 2016-Present day
02, Astra 1.6 8v 2005-17
01, Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD Orvis
95, 460 Si 1.8i 2006-08
98, Astra 2.0 DTI Estate
91, 440 1.7GLE 2006
90, Peugeot405 Si 2004/5

User avatar
jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 2501
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:19 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:10 pm

Yes and sorry I still haven't found the new regulator. I don't even have a big or particularly cluttered gaarge! I've looked a few times now and still can't find it. I wonder if I accidentally put it in the bin?‎

You can fit a generic one with a fuel rail adapter I believe. You'll just need to set it to the correct pressure of course. ‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

User avatar
dragonflyjewels
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Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:38 am
Location: Norfolk

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by dragonflyjewels » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:13 pm

omg, we are starting to have similar problems with Eva the turbo. After being sorned for a few months she fires up fine, but if she's left ticking over while the GT is being tucked away in her place, the engine just dies and won't re-start until cold. Seems the longer she's been left unused, the worse it is. We drove her yesterday when she hadn't been used for a week, started fine but when we got to the main road 1.5 miles away, she started coughing and spluttering. She did keep going though, and settled down after a few minutes. I drove her again today day and no hesitation at all. Yesterday reminded me of a problem many years ago with an Austin Allegro, when the old automatic choke went wrong and didn't shut off as soon as it should have. Damned embarrassing as I had pulled out to slot into the traffic and took several minutes to get going. :angry:
Sylvia

Snazzy - 1993 Paris Blue ES red dipstick 2.0i bought 2001
Lethal Lily - 1991 White Turbo
Paris the Unicorn - 1991 Paris Edition
hubby has
Sven - 1994 Racing Green GT
Evil Eva - 1992 Paris Blue Turbo

no previous 480s - can't bear to sell any

JohnO
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Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by JohnO » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:26 am

So what were the faults?
And how did you fix them?

Curious minds want to know lol
JohnO
Central Scotland
M ybw Celebration 51/480 just adopted from fellow member
F ggg Black 480 es 1989 - garaged for 20 years, rotten arches

Shane_398
Started learning about 480
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 pm
Location: Atherton, Manchester

Re: Loss of Power when engine is hot... fine when Cold

Post by Shane_398 » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:59 am

I didn't fix them JohnO I still have the fuelling issue, IT comes and goes but it is getting worse all I'm doing basically is waiting for whatever it is to finally give up

It can drive fine for miles then come back to it and it runs like Sh*te... Although the other day it wouldn't accelerate at all just sat there coughing and spluttering at about 500RPM oil light was on it was ticking over that low...

I switched it off and restarted it and it drove fine then over to my mates garage without incident...

We tested the fuel pump and that was returning about 3.4bar unless it's on it's way and just plays up now and again... I don't know....

I need somebody in the northwest of England to have a look at the car and give me some advice on where to go next..
Shane

95, 480 Celebration 398/480. 2007-Present day
07, Jeep Cherokee 2.8CRD Limited. 2016-Present day
02, Astra 1.6 8v 2005-17
01, Jeep Cherokee 2.5TD Orvis
95, 460 Si 1.8i 2006-08
98, Astra 2.0 DTI Estate
91, 440 1.7GLE 2006
90, Peugeot405 Si 2004/5

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