480 Turbo running problem

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jifflemon
480 Is my middle name
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by jifflemon » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:30 am

Its part of the joy of older cars though! They'll drive you insane, but it's so rewarding when you finally work out the problem!

Have you got good clean earths on the engine?
Have you measured your Maf yet?
Are you back on your original coil?

And feel free to bother us all the time - That's why the forum exists. You're not alone!

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brinkie
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by brinkie » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:00 am

theofc3s wrote: guess theres a few things wrong with the old girl and i'm just slowly getting through them.
other problem i'm having is i cant just keep sinking money into it, there must be something daft i'm missing here with this thing.

sorry to keep bothering you all, should have just left the roughest but most reliable 480 on the road (sleeping due to rough bodywork)
Not at all! We're all in the same boat :lol:
Robert.

Present cars: 1994 Volvo 480 GT 2.0i, 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 Europa, 2010 Volvo V70 2.0F Momentum

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dcwalker
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by dcwalker » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:26 am

Absolutely as jifflemon and brinkie have said - feel free to bother us; that's why this community is here because we all want to help keep these infuriating little cars going!

It's all mutual - next time around it might well be you with the answer to someone else's problem.

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

WhiteWolf
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:36 pm

As everyone has said feel free to ask. It's a community. The amount of time and money this forum has saved me is unbelievable.

As said before its time to go back to basics. Check every sensors resistance and wiring. Check for splits in air pipes. I've just had the same problem. I think I eliminated everything before buying a maf. Apart from a problem with an ignition relay.

Try running the car with sensors unplugged as well. See if it improves with the temperature sensor unplugged.
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

theofc3s
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by theofc3s » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:35 pm

hi everyone bit of an update.

went through and checked sensors resistance looks good across the lot.

maf is set at 392.

pulled injector rail out yesterday, again consistent resistance across injectors also cleaned them out while there.

replaced all vacuum ends just incase.

swapped plugs out again same issue.

have a new coil on now which is fine but same issue persists.

issue triggers between 3500 and 5000rpm then stays that way which is beginning to make me wonder if the issue i'm having is its going into limp mode (will still sit at 70 though)

Should also add i'm averaging 28mpg (according to infocentre) doing about 60 miles a day and a good 40 of them are sat cruising at 50 in 5th due to road works. haven't owned a turbo before this one but surely thats on the low side?

now i cant think what i haven't checked anymore!

cheers

Theo
92' 480S
93' Turbo
85' Datsun laurel

past
89' Mk2 polo saloon
84' Datsun laurel

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dcwalker
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by dcwalker » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:50 pm

Hmmm...even allowing for the vagaries of the info-centre I'd have thought that's a bit low on the economy side of things.

As you say, running out of things to check. Let's try a different tack - is the lambda sensor OK?

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

theofc3s
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by theofc3s » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:10 pm

i unearthed the connectors for the lambda sensor from under the battery tray earlier mainly to clean up the earth points going under the battery tray so moved them around to make them easier to access hunted around on the forum a bit and saw rpruen saying that an o2 sensor fault will make the ecu get a bit panicky past 4k.

was meant to unplug it and take it for a drive when i got side tracked and ended up getting the headlights to go up and down again!

but i was starting to suspect that as everything else looks okay. may check whether my other non turbo 480 has the same lambda fitted if so might put it on this one (although a bit chewy if it isn't that)

do you reckon that would give me the symptoms i'm having?

cheers
92' 480S
93' Turbo
85' Datsun laurel

past
89' Mk2 polo saloon
84' Datsun laurel

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dcwalker
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by dcwalker » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:39 pm

Only reason I suggested it was because I recall a time when my previous Celeb (2.0 n/a) had a session of being sluggish and also the fuel economy dropped right down, and - as I learnt at MOT, emissions were out too. Turned out it the wiring to the lambda sensor. It's the green one and is some form of armoured cable and it was corroded somewhere. I took a cable off a scrap 2.0 440 (they were still available then...) and bypassed the existing wire with it, and problem solved.

In my case the actual lambda sensor itself was fine - but it just struck me as being another potential area to look into.

Best

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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dcwalker
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by dcwalker » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:40 pm

dcwalker wrote:Only reason I suggested it was because I recall a time when my previous Celeb (2.0 n/a) had a session of being sluggish and also the fuel economy dropped right down, and - as I learnt at MOT, emissions were out too. Turned out it was the wiring to the lambda sensor. It's the green one and is some form of armoured cable and it was corroded somewhere. I took a cable off a scrap 2.0 440 (they were still available then...) and bypassed the existing wire with it, and problem solved.

In my case the actual lambda sensor itself was fine - but it just struck me as being another potential area to look into.

Best

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

WhiteWolf
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by WhiteWolf » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:44 am

theofc3s wrote:i unearthed the connectors for the lambda sensor from under the battery tray earlier mainly to clean up the earth points going under the battery tray so moved them around to make them easier to access hunted around on the forum a bit and saw rpruen saying that an o2 sensor fault will make the ecu get a bit panicky past 4k.

was meant to unplug it and take it for a drive when i got side tracked and ended up getting the headlights to go up and down again!

but i was starting to suspect that as everything else looks okay. may check whether my other non turbo 480 has the same lambda fitted if so might put it on this one (although a bit chewy if it isn't that)

do you reckon that would give me the symptoms i'm having?

cheers
It depends on which ecu you have regards the oxygen sensor. On the cars with the red ecu the fuel is enriched by 5% if the sensor is unplugged or fails. My car is a 92 and is a red ecu.
The cars from 93 on are different. The ignition is retarded by a certain amount.
I can't remember when the cars go into open loop though.
The sensor is certainly a good contender.
I easily ruled that out on mine because it is disabled.

Did you say your car was over fuelling though?

If you can try and have a look inside your cat, maybe there's a blockage.

Have you tested every sensor including knock sensor?

Regarding the boost gauge it does it go heavily into the red when you floor it.
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

theofc3s
480 Newbie
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by theofc3s » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:13 pm

right! narrowed this down to a sensor issue now (i bloody hope) thought i'de try turning it on and off again (dont know why i haven't tried this yet) while on the move and it brings it back to life again for a short while! tried multiple times with the same results ecu is obviously getting told to cut back ignition but resets when cars turned off.

anyway took the hit and bought a couple sensors doesn't seem to be o2 as its the same with it unplugged.

will keep you posted hopefully should be right by the weekend!

cheers guys!
92' 480S
93' Turbo
85' Datsun laurel

past
89' Mk2 polo saloon
84' Datsun laurel

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AleksanderHugo
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by AleksanderHugo » Wed May 16, 2018 6:34 pm

dcwalker wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:39 pm
Turned out it the wiring to the lambda sensor. It's the green one and is some form of armoured cable and it was corroded somewhere.
Today I discovered that my 2.0 also has a problem with the green lambda wire (I hope the reason for insanely high fuel consumption is finally identified :) ). The wire is shielded and this shield is grounded near the ECU end. In my case, it seems that the insulation between the signal wire and this shield is somewhere broken, which caused ECU to read lambda voltage as zero.

For now, I have simply cut off the shield from the ground. I guess that it's better to have some interference on the signal than not to have it at all :wink:

Does anyone know where I can get such a shielded cable with specification that will allow it to go into the engine bay? Perhaps this shielding is not very important and my temporary solution can become permanent? I will appreciate your advice!

frenchfries
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by frenchfries » Wed May 16, 2018 11:07 pm

Is the insane fuel consumption reflected in some data on the trip computer such as Range or Instant Consumption or Average?
1993 Turbo auto called Skip for the important stuff
2011 Juke 190 for everything else

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AleksanderHugo
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by AleksanderHugo » Thu May 17, 2018 12:53 pm

It’s reflected in manually calculated average consumption, which jumped from 9–10 l/100km range up to 12–14 l/100km. But it’s also visible on the IC, so it seems that the ECU intentionally uses too much fuel (i.e. these are not leaking injectors).

I have checked all wiring and resistances related to air and coolant temp sensors, lambda sensor, throttle position sensor, air pressure sensor.

In general, the problem seems to be mainly with consumption while idling. On a long journey, I managed to get down to 10l/100, which is only a bit above usual 9l/100 that I used to see. When I cruise the he instant consumption display almost never gets down to zero, while it used to do that in the past.

I’ll take the car for some longer test run to see if disconnected shielding made any difference.

frenchfries
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by frenchfries » Thu May 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Thanks for the info. I did 33mpg on A roads recently since Skip is auto I guess it is acceptable........if the trip computer is accurate of course.
1993 Turbo auto called Skip for the important stuff
2011 Juke 190 for everything else

Alan 480
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by Alan 480 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:00 pm

two litre would do around 45mpg on the display on LONG runs, usually around 40mpg on my normal 15mile trip to/from work and from average fuel top-ups that was about correct , being awffy canny on the loud pedal got to the 45mpg or 10miles per litre

I can imagine that high fuel consumption is easy with a turbo ;-)
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

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AleksanderHugo
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by AleksanderHugo » Thu May 17, 2018 6:14 pm

40 mpg? 45 mpg? :shock: My 480 hasn't ever been even close to these figures. I need to double check if it's is not a turbo after all :lol:

Alan 480
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by Alan 480 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:28 pm

aye but the 1700 only ever did high 30's

and the 45mpg was with two folk & luggage as well

longish trips to Fife (90miles each way) with boot full of spares & tool kit(s) would easily give 40mpg

just checked back, 30 - 35mpg was more usual for the daily commute when around town (quick check did 1400 miles on 200 litres OR about 7 miles/litre)

when doing the 15 mile trips to work with engine hot/oil hot etc 3100 miles on 300 litres in 2007

these are from recorded fillings, speedo been iffy for last wee while and SWAMBO only doing very short runs so not that good :-(
Alan

480 ES 2litre 'Celebration' ? , C30 1.8ES, SS1

eye of ra
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by eye of ra » Fri May 18, 2018 8:31 am

From memory when I was using mine as the daily run over a period of a week or so I got 26mpg (it’s a 1.7 Auto and did do better on a run). Cold start, 5 miles to work, stop, cold start, 5 miles home, stop. Wouldn’t call it stop start as the roads were clear and no cues but country roads with a couple of roundabouts and a set of lights. My 4.3 V8 Merc did 23mpg doing the same run. :? :shock:

This is using the info centres of both cars, never actually measured it properly.
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dcwalker
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Re: 480 Turbo running problem

Post by dcwalker » Mon May 21, 2018 8:25 am

AleksanderHugo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:14 pm
40 mpg? 45 mpg? :shock: My 480 hasn't ever been even close to these figures. I need to double check if it's is not a turbo after all :lol:
This sounds exactly like my Celeb was. The info centre was showing figures barely into the 30's, and I knew the 2.0 should be much better than that. After I sorted the lambda wire out the fuel economy shot up and she would do into the 40's.

So if you can get that wire sorted out hopefully you'll have a really nice surprise!

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1996 460 CD & 1997 440 LE with lots of optional extras & 2007 V50 SE Sport
Previous: Celebration 331 (re-homed with Richard S), Celebration 467 (returned to Martin Mc); Celebration 346 (re-homed with Alan480); Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73 (sold on after 6 years), 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

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