Engine won't start

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frenchfries
Advanced 480 rookie
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Engine won't start

Post by frenchfries » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:47 pm

Right

Changed the oil, turned the engine on to circulate for 10 minutes or so and all is well.

Then proceeded to change the headlight bulbs for new H4s and now that it is all done the engine won't start, everything is making the right noise but it won't start. It does not reach the stage of fuel starting to ignite (does not spluter). I can turn the key for 10 seconds or so before the battery looses its strength and the starter motor just clicks :badmood:

Help?
1993 Turbo auto called Skip for the important stuff
2011 Juke 190 for everything else

Ade
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Engine won't start

Post by Ade » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:06 pm

Assuming you've checked that there's nothing obvious that may have been disturbed during your procedure, here's stuff to check but before you do, get a good strong battery on it or jump leads from a running, charging vehicle and try it. I've had the scenario a few times over the years with the 480 where battery is strong enough to crank the engine but voltage drops too much for the ECU's so no go. A good battery should crank like the clappers for longer than 10secs, seems like this is likely. If this still doesn't work then try some of the following-

To check spark, take the king lead off and shove a spark plug into it, allow the plug body to earth somewhere and get someone to crank it, make sure the plug is sparking. Bear in mind, even if there is a spark, it might be weak and unable to ignite the mixture under pressure in the cylinder but if the car was running ok minutes before then this may not be as likely. If you have spark then your crank sensor is definitely ok and coil most likely ok. If no spark then could either be crank sensor or coil or ignition relay, the next bit may help you eliminate/diagnose crank sensor.

There's two relays that come off the jetronic loom under the dash up next to the steering column somewhere, these are fuel pump and ignition relays. There are fuses alongside the relays in the sockets, check these and check the function of the relays (if you have spark then you can rule out the ignition relay and fuse). Hold them in your hand and turn the ignition on. One of the relays should click, energising the ignition system. The fuel pump relay will only become live when the fuel ECU detects a speed signal equivalent to 50 rpm (IIRC) so the second relay ought to click when the engine is cranking (assuming it's cranking well with good battery voltage). Also, on the subject of voltage, I think the ECU's need a good 10v or so minimum to operate so make sure the battery is strong as a weak battery may drop too low under cranking load to energise the ECU's. If you happen to find a scenario with no spark AND no click from the fuel pump relay during cranking then this points strongly toward crank sensor (remember about the speed signal requirement for the fuel pump?). If you do have spark but find that the fuel relay is not behaving correctly then this is the next thing to investigate, could be a faulty relay or a break in one of the circuits. All this you can do with no tools, next, get your spanners out....

Easy way to check actual fuel delivery, either disconnect the fuel line from the rail and put it into a container, crank the engine. Fuel should piss out at quite a rate. Or... take out the plugs, crank it and sniff the cylinders for the smell of fuel. You may even see fuel mist coming up out of the spark plug bores. This will eliminate injectors as a problem too if there's fuel getting as far as the cylinder. If this is the case then it's definitely an ignition problem or major engine mechanical defect (seems unlikely so ignition realistically). If the fuel relay is operating correctly, next stop is checking actual fuel delivery as described above. If the relay operates but still no fuel then could be pump or wiring maybe.

Also, easy way to rule out ignition problem is to spray easy start, brake cleaner etc into the intake, crank it and see if it splutters or runs for a second. If it does then obviously ignition is good and it's a lack of fuel causing the issue.

There's not really that much more that would stop it running, remeber, fuel+air+spark = go! Start with spark, then look at fuel, air is kind of a given, although I suppose if you had a faulty idle valve you would need to have throttle open a bit but I suppose you've been giving it throttle anyway, I know I always do when something won't go :)


This is not an exhaustive guide to every possible non running scenario, obviously, however I've listed all the things that would be my first checks in a non start situation. If still no joy after checking the basics, let us know how you got on and we'll try and help. Good luck, and try not to get frustrated, stay cool and be methodical and you'll find the problem, there's not that many things on these cars that can stop it running assuming (fairly safely I should think if the car was running so recently) that the ECU's themselves and the loom are fine.
O.C. 480 D.

frenchfries
Advanced 480 rookie
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Re: Engine won't start

Post by frenchfries » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:43 pm

Thanks Ade for this concise explanation.
The voltmeter in the car barely leaves the Red zone now.
Jump leads will arrive tomorrow and once I have exonerated the battery I will follow your suggestions. What is the king lead, is it cylinder1?

It started raining so I did not have time to check the levels inside the battery, I hope it is where the problem lies :)
1993 Turbo auto called Skip for the important stuff
2011 Juke 190 for everything else

Ade
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Engine won't start

Post by Ade » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:08 am

King lead goes from the coil to the centre terminal on the distributor cap. You can do the same test with any of the other leads that go to the plugs as well though, if you do it at the plugs then you'll discount dizzy and rotor too, although from the sound of it, this is unlikely to be the cause of your problem.

I really do think it's battery voltage, if you're only cranking for 10 secs before it's struggling, I'd put money on the fact that the ECU's simply haven't got the voltage to operate. I bet you it'll start with a jump. When you connect the leads, leave it to charge for a few mins before trying it and it should turn over really strongly and hopefully there'll be enough voltage for the management system, as I said, I've had the same thing myself, thinking it's knackered but then starts fine with good voltage.
O.C. 480 D.

Ade
Can tell where the 480 was built
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 pm
Location: Northants

Re: Engine won't start

Post by Ade » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:10 am

Also, if it does start ok with a jump, make sure it's charging properly, your voltmeter should be reading in the upper part of the gauge but not quite red (about 14V) with the engine running.
O.C. 480 D.

frenchfries
Advanced 480 rookie
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Re: Engine won't start

Post by frenchfries » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:07 am

Thanks for the king lead.

Regarding the battery I drove it back home a week ago (160 miles) and the voltmeter was always where it should be.

Now, since Halfords sold me the wrong oil drain washer and oil filter has anyone changed a battery not too ling ago and if yes which one?
1993 Turbo auto called Skip for the important stuff
2011 Juke 190 for everything else

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jamescarruthers
480 Is my middle name
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Re: Engine won't start

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:59 am

Yes, I bought one a month or two ago from Halfords and their recommendation fits. I got a Yuasa black with lifetime guarantee.

I had no end of starting issues which were due to the low battery voltage. Car voltmeter died at a similar time so I was none the wiser!

My battery, genuine Volvo one from a few years ago, lasted maybe 5 years although I think dodgy alternator did it some damage at some point.

I'd advise that you also check the condition of your battery earth lead to the car and then the engine.
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

frenchfries
Advanced 480 rookie
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:11 pm

Re: Engine won't start

Post by frenchfries » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Skip started "on the button" this morning. Battery shows 13V and then goes up to 13.85-14V with engine running. It went down to 9V at cranking but started straight away.

My battery is a Yuasa as well but not sure which one. Levels are good inside it so not sure what the problem was or how long it has been in it but it does look recent.

In a week time I take her to a Volvo specialist for a check up.

I find her a bit wallowy but then again I am traveling back in time here and my other car is a Juke 190 so......

Thank you all for your precious help and more will follow in -I think- pretty much every single section of this treasure trove that is this website:)
1993 Turbo auto called Skip for the important stuff
2011 Juke 190 for everything else

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