Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

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balto8
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
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Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by balto8 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:35 pm

HI.

I'm a first time owner trying to solve a problem with my new 1991 turbo. Been reading at the forum but couldn't find a answer for my problem.

The turbo meter needle on the dashboard set of clocks won't go pass halfway and will stay there no matter how far you push the turbo. The turbo seems to run fine and as far as I can tell being a newbie, the car acceleration is fine and it delivers as intended. Only had the chance to try another turbo before buying mine and they both seem to perform equally. Also checked for the youtube videos and mine seems to do as I've seen. The needle doesn't vibrate it just stays there.

Questions:
Am I looking at a faulty meter? What should I check for?
Could it be a leaking coupling?
Did anyone had a similar problem?
Links?

Already got myself a set of dashboard meters and will be trying to replace them asap.

Thanks
1991 480 Black Turbo
2012 Seat Exeo ST
2013 VW Polo TSI DSG

gsa60
Started learning about 480
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by gsa60 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:36 am

Hi!
That's normal on all the 480 turbos. The gauge measures around +1bar at the end of the yellow mark. However the turbo produces around 0.46 bar i believe.
This in a standard non tuned turbo :D . I believe the reason why the the gauge goes to 1bar is because originaly the turbo was intended to produce more boost.
The original project was for the 480turbo to have around 190hp
Cheers.

Robou
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Posts: 270
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by Robou » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:28 pm

The present position of your needle should indicate 0.55 bar of (maximum) boost, which is about halfway between the position at motor off and the end of the scale. But do not expect any accuracy or linearity from these meters.
You could have the needle positioned somewhat further on the scale, gain 0.2 bar of boost, 15Nm and 3PS by cutting the wire to pin 4 of the Jetronic and connect the part going to pin 4 to ground, preferably the wire which goes to pin 5. This is, if you have the red pair of ECUs in your '91. Volvo had this modification for a few months, then discarded it, probably because of the bad quality of gas in some countries by that time. The same goes for the ECU combination blue/green, but this is definitely not applicable in your case.
Too old to bother
480 Turbo midst '91

balto8
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by balto8 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:08 pm

You've been of great help.

My mechanic was wondering exactly the same, telling me that the needle shouldn't go pass where it is if we were expecting something around 0.45 bar.

So all the videos I've seen on youtube that push the needle to the end of the yellow zone are tuned?

I really have no need to tune up the car right now as it's going to be used for sunday driving.

Thank you all very much.
1991 480 Black Turbo
2012 Seat Exeo ST
2013 VW Polo TSI DSG

m616tls
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by m616tls » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:06 am

My turbo gauge won't even reach halfway. I read the reply Robou gave you and wondered if anyone knows the exact time frame Volvo did these mods to the Jetronic. I have the Blue and Green ECUs. May the lack of pressure be due to this "mod" they did, or something else.
The car has done 33000 miles and is nigh on perfect.
The car was reg in 7.8.92
I have tested it on the continent at 115 mph on the GPS. This is a full 10 mph short, so gave strength to the lack of power indicated by the turbo gauge being slightly short of the club average for non modded turbos.

Any ideas???
480 GT Green Aug 1994 "Sven"
480 Turbo Robou Paris Blue Aug 1992 "Eva"
SAAB 9-5 HOT Aero estate 2008 Black "Kemosaaby".........weasel xxxx comes to mind.
Previous cars.
940 2.3 SE Turbo May 1995 Burgundy "The Spy"
850 SE 2.5 1996 Burgundy. "Mew"
940 2.0 White "Dexy"

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doingitsideways
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by doingitsideways » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:19 pm

You probably have a boost leak somewhere, my money would be a busted recirc valve leaking boost away.
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical fault!"
Hammers can't fix a 480!!!

Robou
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by Robou » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:32 pm

I wonder how come so few people are capable of reading more than one line of a message, and even then....
In my post the free recipe for simply adding some torque and power for the owners of a red/red and blue/green combination of ECUs plus a comment on the reliability of the pressure gauge can be discovered.
This reaction is only because my post was quoted and I can't find out for what reason.
Too old to bother
480 Turbo midst '91

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jamesy12345
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by jamesy12345 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:55 am

From memory my boost gauge went about halfway into the yellow, a bit past 12 o'clock, when the car was stock. Old post on this...http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/v ... =3&t=16224

But as the guys mention above, since the gauges are not accurate I wouldn't worry so much about it

If you think the performance is down that is another story....why not rig up an aftermarket boost gauge & check what pressure you are getting
Current:
Volvo S60 '04
Renault 21 '91
Subaru Legacy '05
Mazda RX-7 '93
Renault 5 '84

Previous:
440 2 litre, 440 Turbo, 460 Turbo, 480 Turbo x2, 854 T-5R, S40 T4, V40 T4, S70 T5 & R, V70 R x2, S60 R

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martinholmesuk
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by martinholmesuk » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:20 pm

Long time since having anything to do with 480's. The early 480s boost slightly more then the later.
Volvo 940 Turbo 19T (real Volvo :P)
Audi TT

m616tls
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by m616tls » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:59 pm

Sorted the MAF resistance to 530 ohms. Had new turbo fitted and they set the actuator to open early for bedding in ( I don't know why) and did full pressure leak checks. I need to know, on my model 92, which way to close the actuator to delay it as I am getting less than standard pressure, or do I have to open it???????. I have the Robou fitted, new Audi dump valve and less than impressed with lack of pressure. Hardly going to 12 o'clock. Thanks
480 GT Green Aug 1994 "Sven"
480 Turbo Robou Paris Blue Aug 1992 "Eva"
SAAB 9-5 HOT Aero estate 2008 Black "Kemosaaby".........weasel xxxx comes to mind.
Previous cars.
940 2.3 SE Turbo May 1995 Burgundy "The Spy"
850 SE 2.5 1996 Burgundy. "Mew"
940 2.0 White "Dexy"

Robou
Knows an Aerodeck isn't a 480
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:34 pm

Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by Robou » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:52 pm

The mod controls the regulating valve which in turn controls the diaphragm which in turn controls the wastegate. The mod is set to a maximum boost of a little less than 1 bar. Provided the regulating valve is OK and the three pipes are connected in right order and without leaks, the diaphragm works as expected and the rod is connected to the wastegate near it's closed position plus the turbo is able to produce over 1 bar then the mod will allow around 1 bar pressure in the inlet manifold. It has been developed and tested for this purpose. The only way to break the boost circuit in the ECU is to connect it to a shorted regulating valve, a transistor inside will blow. The resistance between the connector pins on the valve should be about 30 Ohms.
I do not understand what you state about bedding in and delaying. You better check if the conditions above are met.
Too old to bother
480 Turbo midst '91

Ade
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by Ade » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:41 pm

I'd have to agree with robou, all this stuff about bedding in and 'delays' sounds a bit suspect to me! Are you sure this garage knows what they are doing??? And I hope they did an oil service at the same time! Incidentally my '90 turbo boosts almost to the red then backs off to about '2 o clock' position and always has, never had an issue with it. Orange ECU's in mine.
O.C. 480 D.

m616tls
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by m616tls » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:48 pm

Yup, I twigged the b...shit about the turbo but the company who reconditioned my turbo set the wastegate to open early. I have every confidence that when I have corrected the mistake to "half a hole" or around 5mm not the 1-2 mm movement of the actuator rod they imposed on me, some more power will appear. I unlocked the actuator rod, loosening the 10mm nut, removed the circlip and pulled off the rod from wastegate spigot. I tried to rotate the turnbuckle but could not actually move it. Locking compound or crimping??? Looks like a small dimple in the turnbuckle body.
What I am very interested in is the condition of the regulating valve. If this indeed triggered a fault in my Robou, then it will have to go back and be mended.
Would anyone have a known, proven, regulating valve I can buy from them please. It would be pointless to have the ECU checked to find the regulating valve may blow it again. I will, of course check the resistance as Robou suggested.
The red pipe from the regulating valve goes to a new diaphragm working the actuator rod. The wastegate is new.
The white pipe goes from the turbo area to the regulating valve. Let me know if the set up is erroneous.
This is all proving quite disheartening.
480 GT Green Aug 1994 "Sven"
480 Turbo Robou Paris Blue Aug 1992 "Eva"
SAAB 9-5 HOT Aero estate 2008 Black "Kemosaaby".........weasel xxxx comes to mind.
Previous cars.
940 2.3 SE Turbo May 1995 Burgundy "The Spy"
850 SE 2.5 1996 Burgundy. "Mew"
940 2.0 White "Dexy"

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jamesy12345
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by jamesy12345 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:08 pm

Try using molegrips fella rather than pliers. Here's a schematic of the system

Image

Top hose (black) feeds pressure to the solenoid, middle hose (red) goes to wastegate actuator. Yellow hose not so important. Colour references are to my photo, which may not match yours. If you suspect your boost solenoid as above it's resistance between pins can be checked...

Image

...but if you have no luck I may have one somewhere
Current:
Volvo S60 '04
Renault 21 '91
Subaru Legacy '05
Mazda RX-7 '93
Renault 5 '84

Previous:
440 2 litre, 440 Turbo, 460 Turbo, 480 Turbo x2, 854 T-5R, S40 T4, V40 T4, S70 T5 & R, V70 R x2, S60 R

m616tls
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Posts: 33
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by m616tls » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:17 pm

Hi Jamesy, thanks for that schematic, mighty helpful. I have checked the boost solenoid and it reads 26.4ohms. Is that is the ok range or slightly low. Tried molegrips on the actuator rod and pliers on the turnbuckle, no chance. Booked in for the turnbuckle to be eased and correct preload on the actuator set; go from there.
Having checked or renewed all the salient parts
1.turbo
2.actuator
3.wastegate
4.pressure check on system
5.Boost solenoid
6.MAF 530
7.pipes tight on regulator valve system
8.red pipe to the wastegate actuator
9.black pipe to the solenoid
There is almost nothing else left in the immediate system to upset Robou's mod. Somehow the mod isn't influencing the regulator valve as I see it. Correct me if I am wrong please. There is definitely sharper performance, down to timing and fuel but no extra boost.......................................strange :( :? :nuts:
480 GT Green Aug 1994 "Sven"
480 Turbo Robou Paris Blue Aug 1992 "Eva"
SAAB 9-5 HOT Aero estate 2008 Black "Kemosaaby".........weasel xxxx comes to mind.
Previous cars.
940 2.3 SE Turbo May 1995 Burgundy "The Spy"
850 SE 2.5 1996 Burgundy. "Mew"
940 2.0 White "Dexy"

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jamesy12345
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Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:49 am
Location: Durham, England

Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by jamesy12345 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:33 am

m616tls wrote:Hi Jamesy, thanks for that schematic, mighty helpful. I have checked the boost solenoid and it reads 26.4ohms. Is that is the ok range or slightly low. Tried molegrips on the actuator rod and pliers on the turnbuckle, no chance. Booked in for the turnbuckle to be eased and correct preload on the actuator set; go from there.
Having checked or renewed all the salient parts
1.turbo
2.actuator
3.wastegate
4.pressure check on system
5.Boost solenoid
6.MAF 530
7.pipes tight on regulator valve system
8.red pipe to the wastegate actuator
9.black pipe to the solenoid
There is almost nothing else left in the immediate system to upset Robou's mod. Somehow the mod isn't influencing the regulator valve as I see it. Correct me if I am wrong please. There is definitely sharper performance, down to timing and fuel but no extra boost.......................................strange :( :? :nuts:
As we talked about fella, my opinion is to have a look at that wastegate rod first - get that set up correctly then maybe try another boost solenoid/regulating valve. 26 ohms is lower than I expected but a broken one I assume would show (almost) zero or infinite resistance.

Good luck!!
Current:
Volvo S60 '04
Renault 21 '91
Subaru Legacy '05
Mazda RX-7 '93
Renault 5 '84

Previous:
440 2 litre, 440 Turbo, 460 Turbo, 480 Turbo x2, 854 T-5R, S40 T4, V40 T4, S70 T5 & R, V70 R x2, S60 R

m616tls
480 Newbie
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by m616tls » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:00 pm

Ok, here's the way it is. The turbo gauge indicates the exact same position in 1-5 gears using the standard ECU as it does with the Robou mod. This is totally illogical. Robou said there is nothing wrong with his mod. I received it back a few days ago from him after he had checked it out. This means the signal from the standard ECU to the solenoid booster valve is exactly the same as the signal from the modded one. Again totally illogical. In first and second the solenoid booster dumps the power early as it should and then closes, increasing turbo boost, as you go up the gears to 5th. Given that the engine with the mod is a few degrees advanced and the fuel is re-mapped, the increase in acceleration is felt with the modded ECU. My problem is that I know the modded ECU should hold back the wastegate actuator until the gauge reaches the yellow/red zone. Assuming the turbo works as per, which it does, Apart from the solenoid booster valve, is there any other electrical unit which could be interfering with the system. It can't be the dump valve that is new and is probably set at about 1 bar. The engine is only receiving standard boost, so the dump valve shouldn't be the problem.??????????????????????????? I am hoping the solenoid valve is at fault but looking at it logically, on standard ECU the system works ok. If, as he says it does, the modded ECU is ok, then why isn't the Robou holding the booster valve closed.
My biggest problem with all this is that the mod has no effect on the boost at all.
Is there anyone in England who can help me sort this out. I will pay for your expertise and any parts you use. Otherwise this is a white elephant???
480 GT Green Aug 1994 "Sven"
480 Turbo Robou Paris Blue Aug 1992 "Eva"
SAAB 9-5 HOT Aero estate 2008 Black "Kemosaaby".........weasel xxxx comes to mind.
Previous cars.
940 2.3 SE Turbo May 1995 Burgundy "The Spy"
850 SE 2.5 1996 Burgundy. "Mew"
940 2.0 White "Dexy"

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jamesy12345
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:49 am
Location: Durham, England

Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by jamesy12345 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:56 pm

Posted on the other Volvo forum but I will repeat here so the 480 guys can comment also:

Like I said on the Skype disappointing that this hasn't been resolved. The only things I can think of would be boost leak (including the recirc leaking back to inlet side) or the boost solenoid. Have a good pull at all the hoses & lines or maybe a smoke test will pick any leaks up apart from the recirc. The recirc valve can be checked by trying to blow through the smallest connection on it. As mentioned make sure it is sitting correctly with the locating tab in the correct place.

Is that wastegate actuator adjusted correctly now btw I can't remember if you went back to the place that adjusted it. If there are no leaks and the recirc is OK it might be a case of adjusting the rod until you see the boost gauge get to the end of the yellow. Since the ECU is working correctly as Robou says then fuel & timing should be adjusted for the higher boost. Go careful though...I've got a spare engine if you need one...! Bullet proof way to do it would be to get a more accurate boost gauge and an AFR meter up the exhaust. I think Robou aims for about 13.5 psig so AFR's should be fine up til that point (maybe you could confirm that with him - what is the maximum boost expected with this ECU)

The problem is with these cars that there is not many of them about now & the knowledge just isn't there anymore for modifying. I ran out of time & money on them - it's hard work to modify a car that isn't mint to start with (as is usually the case for me)
Current:
Volvo S60 '04
Renault 21 '91
Subaru Legacy '05
Mazda RX-7 '93
Renault 5 '84

Previous:
440 2 litre, 440 Turbo, 460 Turbo, 480 Turbo x2, 854 T-5R, S40 T4, V40 T4, S70 T5 & R, V70 R x2, S60 R

WhiteWolf
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by WhiteWolf » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:29 pm

I would advise getting the car on a rolling road... Setting the resistance of the Maf is just the first step... I believe the correct value advised is 520ohms... I could be wrong without looking at the manual for the mod again...
At 530 it possibly could be running rich...
What temperature does the car go up to when running hard... I fine lower temperatures 70/80 when running rich 80/90 when running leaner.. Thats just an observation though which I think is right..
Can you accelerate in 5th gear at 30mph without hesitation...
As mentioned an air fuel ratio metre would be a good way to go...

I have a Roboumod on my car... The car is evil.. Its taken a while to get set up right and I have a few more things to do like the exhaust...
I like to reset the ecu once in a while to see if the car went into a safemode etc...
93 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod
91 480 Turbo white
with Roboumod..
91 480 Es silver

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doingitsideways
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Re: Turbo meter wont' go pass halfway.

Post by doingitsideways » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:26 pm

Jamesy, if you carry on giving bits of that engine away, there'll be nothing left for me to collect! :lol:

Got me stumped though, this one.

Oh, I sent a replacement BCV back with Pollution. Don't know if Jim had that for his stash though.
"If you can't fix it with a hammer, it's an electrical fault!"
Hammers can't fix a 480!!!

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