still have to start three times.

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:46 pm

Since i have cleaned the throttle valve some time ago I have to start three times. (but also an other cause is possible)

Now I have some idea's but for the sake of the databank of this forum i would like to share.

aldough the zero position of the valve switch is neatly clicking, there was some little mess behind the switch. some very small burnmarks, and the brittle wires were under some tension. had no direct means of replacing the connector so i pulled the wires some appart and used acid free, non conducting silecone to freeze up and insulate the situation. First I will to is look at that.

Maybe some other idea's ?

the car starts normal, with no throttle, like it has to. but starts idling bad in 2 seconds after (like drowning itsselves)

I have to turn the key all the way back in to rest position after it stalled. Wait for one relay to click (behind the glove box LHD) the last time,

start, with no result, wait again for the relay to click last (2 nd) time)

wait again, key in rest for the relay, and than it starts like nothing happend ????

I see the humor in this , as if it was a anty burgular/anti stress device, but hey, its a bit un practical...

any similar experience, or other idea's ?

V480t · Post by **V480t** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:35 am

I have the same problem!After reading some posts iÂ´m beginning to think its the engine temperature valve but i couldnÂ´t test it yet.

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:32 pm

I take it to a non brand volvo specialist, who can read out the engine ECU and test if the engine sensors are ok. (my old car still need special electronic test box for it)

But I have no hurry

JPF

gerrsvolvo · Post by **gerrsvolvo** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:41 am

Hi volvofox
I strongly think of a defective enginetemperaturesensor for the motormanagement.

Good luck
gerrsvolvo

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:50 pm

thanks gerrs volvo. I cannot find much arguments why it shouldn't be defective, but its not the only possible cause it could be, I will look at it and then maybe get a ecu readout, possible give the same advice.

stranglely dough, there is hardly any difference between a cold and a warm start....

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:06 pm

I am aiming (in my previous post)at the turbo heat sensor that is broken and i am trying to find.

But any way : the fact that i took the ECU connector loose a lot as expecting it to be broken, made me doubt too as also you gerrs volvo said you think of the ecu heat sensor (youre damn good, thanks a milion)

so i took the connector loose ( no oxidation to be seen) sprayed it in with contactspray, and than used my found conbination of normal lithum based thick grease on the connectors (to overbridge play) it started right away (cold!) Lets hope this starting once trend gets on....

well its still running like a dead corps, but hey "krakende wagens" (squeeking wagons run the longest)

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:44 pm

after a few good starts(it seems), again the same...

waiting for a sertain (still is sick) meccanic, who can help me solve this ( read the ECU)

Bramdeman · Post by **Bramdeman** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:56 pm

This might be a mute suggestion but have you cleaned the idle valve recently? Those damn things often create a lot of weird running problems. Or have you tried starting it with the idle valve disconected to see if there was any difference? There of course should be.

I'd look there...

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:19 pm

i have cleaned the idle valve, and it worked, but kind of slow. I have installed a new idle valve through the bosch car electronics circuit.

I can try swapping it for the old one, but i am not that desperate yet. I just wait i can make an appointment with this meccanic i know who has a ECU interface readout box.

mogge · Post by **mogge** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:53 pm

Hi there!

Sorry if my school english istnÂ´t so good.

Another problem on the 480 is the fuelpump. On early modells (turbo) the pump should start when turning ignition off (not started engine) Turn ignition on off, you should hear the fuelpump. Also when starting somebody could check by the fueltank if pump starts.

Sometimes the fuelpump doesnÂ´t start when starting the engine, the car must shake och loose fuelpressure before the the pump starts correctly.

My tips for you is to measure the fuelpressure. ItÂ´s quite easy. Then you can exclude this problem. The pressure should start to bild up as fast as the car starts.

You can have a look at http://volvo480.kicks-ass.net (login serch topics foor "mÃ¤ta brÃ¤nsletryck" Sorry, its in swedish!

http://volvo480.kicks-ass.net/servlet/u ... icle&id=26

Regards Jonas

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:20 pm

thanks jonas, I will try that.

One question U can easyly answer : since it is a "germanic" languague, (so is my mother tongue) some words sound familiar, some even readable, but i cannot recoignize some key words in your swedish.

Do You know a good translator site that can translate whole url's (like web pages) into, lets say english or german? This in style like "babbelfish" does (it doesn't know swedish)

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:25 pm

Maybe this can help:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran.cgi

But may not be so hot on grammar...

bbf · Post by **bbf** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:32 pm

intertran, but it sucks. you have to have alot of imagination to read the results. or you could LOLROFL

:

So here am sitting slangarna orgy on motor, the upper hose, let in, gÃ¥r via a svÃ¤ngningsdÃ¤mpare (ljuddÃ¤mpare) and in on brÃ¤nslefÃ¶rdelningsrÃ¶ret. The is a arm plastslang as warm and shrank on. That must husband excise. OBS the is pressure in that guidance!

if it helps somehow: i have to start 3 times too. or even 4 times. and something more: when disconnectin connector on fuelpump, the car still runs for about 3 minutes on idle. and can go to high rpm if i step on it. after 3 minutes only 3000 rpm can be achived and soon lover. i have a lot of bubles in fuel rail. i gues the air in this bubles accumulate pressure and feeds the injectors for that time. i HAVE tom measure that pressure one day...

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:12 am

dragon wrote:Maybe this can help:

http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran.cgi

But may not be so hot on grammar...

yep tried that one (try it in swedish -english, you know what I mean)

it doesn't better than i can, using a little german , english, and dutch, ccombined with a bit fantasy... but iguess thats to little.

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:29 am

bbf wrote:intertran, but it sucks. you have to have alot of imagination to read the results. or you could LOLROFL :
So here am sitting slangarna orgy on motor, the upper hose, let in, gÃ¥r via a svÃ¤ngningsdÃ¤mpare (ljuddÃ¤mpare) and in on brÃ¤nslefÃ¶rdelningsrÃ¶ret. The is a arm plastslang as warm and shrank on. That must husband excise. OBS the is pressure in that guidance!
if it helps somehow: i have to start 3 times too. or even 4 times. and something more: when disconnectin connector on fuelpump, the car still runs for about 3 minutes on idle. and can go to high rpm if i step on it. after 3 minutes only 3000 rpm can be achived and soon lover. i have a lot of bubles in fuel rail. i gues the air in this bubles accumulate pressure and feeds the injectors for that time. i HAVE tom measure that pressure one day...

for some reason i don't think its fuel pressure...

one thing i did not mention was that i have a broken turbo coolant sensor for the aux.pump(took it away and insulated the wires (open) ) its combined with the one bolted on the rear of the head.

My best man on my car is having a hard time on it. its not, or not clear mentioned in the volvo dealers system. Since it has acces to the ecu i think its possible the car has to start 3 times to get in the emergency program, or at least drive on the latest correct values.

I just don't want to draw a conclusion if one main factor is stil unknown. (or unexcluded) Am waiting for a ecu readout. than i see further, if than no effect i will test the electrics side (and pump itsselves) from the fuel )

mogge · Post by **mogge** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:52 am

Hi again!

Sorry i dont have any good translation help for you exept my selfe!

The first section of the hompage is just about pressure messuring. What you see is where to put a T-pipe so you have acess to the fuelsystem/pressure.

Pics

1 My on homemade gauge (T-pipe, 8mm hose and a gauge from a watertank must cope 4 bar (400kPa)

2 The original hose, conecting to the fuelrail (inlet) Its a plastic hose, heat schrinced into place (must be cut away)

3 The plastic hose replaced with rubberhose, itÂ´s here you place your gauge.

Pressure should be about 3,5-4 (350-400kPa) when running, after 20 min restpressure not lower than 3,2.
When starting engine the pressure must not drop, but start to bild up!!!!

Please be careful when you remove the hose, there could still be pressure that will overflow and drop in the turbo/outlet mainfold=Flames (if engine is hot)

Flow capacity messsuring.

4 On the pic you see the pressurregulator, in the rear of it there is the hose for return, the fuelpump have over capacity and the system is spooled for cooling and ejecting airbubles.

The black hose in the front is the balance pressure from the inlet mainfold. This create a constant pressure between fuel and inlet.

5 same as above

6 A long rubberhose conected, start engine and test for 30 sec, the volume must be at least 1 lit.

The turbo coolant sensor for the aux.pump has noting to do with the fuel or ingition system. It only starts the fan (cooling injectors, early models) or the aux pump (late models)

Messure the pressur is quit easy, and it will give you the the answer to exclued another possibility of starting problems.

Regards Jonas

Ps, cuestions? Please dont hesitate to question

bbf · Post by **bbf** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:57 am

so, mogge, if i get it correct: the bubbles in return hose are supposed to be?

mogge · Post by **mogge** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:23 pm

Hi!

Well well, how have you seen these bubbles? When do they occur?

When messuring capacity and collecting the fuel in a container it will sometimes bubble, i dont know why but int could come from the when it passing the reulator membrane.

I downt know if itÂ´s possible fÃ¶r the pump to inhale air form the tank (som leaking on the inlet system). But it could be onother question.

Wery interesting! Hope to hear more from you!

Regards Jonas