Engine 'restrained'...

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Dan the 480 Man
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Engine 'restrained'...

Post by Dan the 480 Man » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:35 am

Hi people!

Long time no posty! No, I don't have a 480 again (too much emotional hard-work!), but my Dad still has his. Just a few brief details of it:

1991 Manual Turbo, 74k on the clock, standard ECU.

He's having issues with the Turbo at the moment. I've taken it out for a drive to get my own feel for the problem. Basically, the Turbo is almost non-existent. When you put your foot down, you can hear a slight 'whistle', but not much, and the Turbo needle will only just go into the Yellow. No matter how hard you boot it in any gear, the Turbo will not boost any further than this. I can hear the wastegate doing it's thing when you change gear (it's always been audible).

It feels like driving a non-Turbo. But the other thing thats noticeable, is that when you put your foot down in 3rd, it will get to 60mph, but it won't go any further than this despite the fact it's no-where near the red line, until you change gear: but even then, it feels gut-less.

We disconnected the ECU and left it overnight, which has made no difference, and we've checked for air leaks/split pipes around the engine. The bottom pipe coming off the Turbo is only a few years old and is fine, and the main pipe coming from the Turbo to the MAF is fine too. We've checked the dizzy cap/leads etc - all those were new a few years ago, so they're ok. The plugs are fine too: not 'coked' up: they are a sort of tan colour, so are fine too. He's also checked the crankshaft sensor as I know from experience how weak these can be, and the sensor is fine, as is the reading on the multimeter. We did think this morning about checking the ohms on the little adjustable screw on the MAF, but I can't remember what the reading should be....was it around the 600's? I remember changing mine for the MOT as I adjusted it then reverted back after the MOT (something to do with the Rich Mod), but we just want to make sure we have the right setting but can't remember what it should be!

He did say that the car started doing this unexpectedly-he was driving it fine and then it just decided to spit it's dummy out. When it first happened, he put his foot down and got a puff of black smoke-but not a big cloud or thick biological cloud lol, just a small puff. We had the Turbo go on our 440 years ago, and he said it was nothing like that. But as I say, you can still hear the turbo spinning, but only for a short amount of time.

Anybody any ideas what this could be?
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JohnTurbo
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Post by JohnTurbo » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:03 pm

I'd take the pipe off the cold snail of the turbo and check the shaft is spinning freely. I'd also check the wastegate is operating smoothly by hand.

A little into the yellow is where the turbo runs if you shortcircuit the solenoid altogether, so it seems likely the solenoid it not doing anything - might well be the ECU as you suspect, though that'd be rare.

I'd expect the car to pass 60 right enough without any boost whatsoever...so that does make you think ecu issues!!

I'm surprised you don't have a spare kicking about tbh ;)
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Sieger
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Post by Sieger » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:25 pm

i've had the same problem , the wastegateflap was broken.
all the turboboost goes directly in the exhaust
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soon --> new engine in with 315cc injectors t25/28 turbo an BIGMOD :)

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Post by Dan the 480 Man » Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:42 pm

Word...

JT! :) Thats one thing we didn't check: to see if the shaft was spinning freely. What sort of resistance should we expect? I guess just no resistance at all and for it to stop freely without suddenly just stopping? I did check the wastegate by hand and it is free, no question. I did wonder wether it was something electronic, hence the ECU disconnection, it just didn't *feel* like a mechanical problem. I wondered whether the coil may cause it to behave like this? Also, any idea what the little unit is to the left of the coil?? It has the red pipe and semi-transparent pipe coming off of it connecting to the wastegate. Is this the solenoid? (See pic):

Image

I don't know if it's worth mentioning that it went to a Volvo dealer a few years back as the Turbo had got a little stiff: they put something in it which cured the problem, but the symptoms aren't the same this time...
Spares - we have the usual, window regulators, replacement lights, brittle plastics :lol:, but not an ECU in sight. And his is the purple ECU too... Even less easy to get hold of!

@ Sieger: so the symptoms I describe are exactly the same as yours, which in turn turned out to be the wastegate flap? Was there any kind of hint that it was broken/way of telling it was broken whilst it was still in the engine?
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Post by Dan the 480 Man » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:32 pm

Right...

Taken all the pipes off again today to check for splits... None. We also checked the shaft on the turbo, and that is fine: it's spinning freely and slows to a stop freely.

I made an error in my original posting: after taking it out again today, the noise we used to get on gear change from the wastegate (like a very faint but noticeable flutter, like an aftermarket wastegate would) is no longer apparent. It's always done it, but now doesn't.

It does move freely with the bonnet up so it's not rusted solid or stuck-you can pull the rod in and out as you should be able to. Thing is, we don't know if it's that thats broken (internally) as we can't see inside it, or if it's anything to do with the little unit to the left of the coil which it's attached to.

So, opinions this time? Oh, and what is that little unit to the left of the coil.... :dunno:
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glasgowjim
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Post by glasgowjim » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:49 pm

I have a spare if you need it :D

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Post by JohnTurbo » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:29 pm

The "unit" is the boost control solenoid. It bleeds off some air to effectively increase the pressure before the wastegate opens.

I mentioned it in my other post.

As far as broken wastegate - sure thats possible! Cat on it? Take it off and see if its caught any "bits"?
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Post by Dan the 480 Man » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:02 pm

Ok, cheers guys. We've been to my Uncles garage, and he has a diagnostic system. He said he can check the car IF it has an external diagnostic plug in the engine bay somewhere. Does the 480 have such a thing somewhere? I know there's the little black box by the top of the suspension, but surely it's not that is it?

Apologies JT, I did over-look that. If the 480 does have a diagnostic plug in the engine bay, then thats the next port-of-call then we'll look into replacing parts. If it can't go onto the diagnostic unit, then part replacement may have to be the next step (my Dad's had enough of 480's, I had to convince him not to start hitting it with the sledgehammer yesterday, no joke :eek: ...he's quite a patient guy really, but this came on top of a bad week!).

@ Jim, IF we can't connect to a diagnostic, there are three things we may need. The boost solenoid, a wastegate and if neither of those work, a burgundy/maroon ECU... Could you give me a price for each of those if you have them please?

I'll post back my findings as the saga unfolds!

Cheers guys!
:D

(Is it wrong that this is making me want an ES....? If I don't own & insure my own car by Dec, I'll lose my NCB...I'm sure I could pick up a cheap ES....couldn't i?? ;))
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glasgowjim
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Post by glasgowjim » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:42 pm

Yes you do have a diagnostic box it is behind the air filter on the suspension strut. :D

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Post by Rapid-R5 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:46 pm

It does sound like ya solonoid is broken Dan.

Pull the pipe of the wastegate actuator see if she boosts then. oh having said that them volvo actuators are soooo weak it may not work like it does with a -31 actuator.



steve
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Post by chriskay » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:09 am

glasgowjim wrote:Yes you do have a diagnostic box it is behind the air filter on the suspension strut. :D
Yes, but it's not an OBD2 one, so diagnostic equipment won't plug in.
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Post by JohnTurbo » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:16 pm

Rapid-R5 wrote:It does sound like ya solonoid is broken Dan.

Pull the pipe of the wastegate actuator see if she boosts then. oh having said that them volvo actuators are soooo weak it may not work like it does with a -31 actuator.



steve

Yes it will. - Worth a try, but be careful, you'll run infinite boost this way!!
Should proove the wastegate is not knackered if it boosts.


Dan@diagnostics...you don't need a diagnostic reader. Do a search!
Box is mounted on front of your NS shock tower.

You turn ignition on, plug into port 5 with the little wire, press button for 1 sec, and read the morse code off the led.

ie 4-1-3 is represented by * * * * * * * *
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Post by Dan the 480 Man » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:47 pm

Ah-ha! An OBD2 connector is what I was looking for. I knew about the unit on the suspension, it read 1-1-1, which is why I needed to know if there was another plug on the car somewhere...

As it turned out, the car is sorted! :D Dad popped the bonnet after trying a few other things, but no joy. So, he held the accelerator open for about 5 or 6 seconds at the red line... BANG! Followed by a garage FULL of black smoke. At that point, he thought the Turbo had just blown up. Out of the garage he walked, only to see about 30ft down the drive.... a big pile of exhaust baffles. Could this be the problem? Took it down the road....the car was 100%. Turns out the baffles had corroded inside the exhaust and it was just falling apart.

So, it's getting a new exhaust. The car is perfect, and it pulls like nobodies business. I swear it's quicker than mine was pre-rich mod... I think he was at the stage of shit or bust. But it's fine now.

Probably not the best place to advertise it, but keep your eye's peeled as it is going up for sale in the next 4 to 6 weeks. After not selling it earlier on in the year, it annoyed him that it started to play up as he'd been talking about selling it once the MOT was done.

So thanks guys...all your info was much appreciated, but it turns out all it was was a really filthy black wig stuck up the exhaust :lol:
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Post by JohnTurbo » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:24 pm

Ahh i should have suggested "collapsed cat". - Baffles is a new one on me though.

I'm losing whatever 'touch' i once might have had.
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Post by Greg-Mitchell » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:15 am

I have a similar problem actually. i'll have to check the exhaust.

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