Cold start idle

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gsa60
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by gsa60 » Tue May 28, 2013 8:04 pm

Rachel wrote:
gsa60 wrote:Hi there,
To anyone who fixed the problem by replacing this valve can someone confirm if the revs gradually rise from cold start until normal operating temperature? Or does the engine jumps to normal?
Mine start's at aprox. 200RPM but keeps rising to 850 @80ºc.
I also found out that when I was adjusting the idle (also at 80ºc), when i connected the two wires that disable the ICV, I did not notice the revs dropping. The ICV is ok which leads me to think that it is the valve pointed in this thread that is not letting more air though.
what i can't understand is why the RPMs gradually rise. Does the valve open with the heat?
Thanks for your help.
Just to confirm, no the revs shouldn't gradually rise. Once I fixed this problem they were spot on.
Thanks for your help Rachel.
However i did not explain myself well.
I was asking if they rised before the valve was changed.

dutmanjf, what i was suspecting is that the diafragm valve is so blocked that no air is reaching the icv.

Rachel
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by Rachel » Tue May 28, 2013 8:43 pm

As I remember before I changed the valve it was just very lumpy and low revs for a short while till it had warmed up a bit. It was a long time ago though. Sorry I can't be more help.
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gsa60
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by gsa60 » Wed May 29, 2013 8:24 pm

That's ok.
I'll try and have a look at it.
Cheers

gsa60
Started learning about 480
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Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Cold start idle

Post by gsa60 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:35 pm

Hi,
I finaly replaced the diafragm valve and what a suprise... It Now comes to life every time. After almost 6 years and some unfruitfull trips to garages, I can't believe that that valve was the culprit :lol: . Thank you for all the help guys.
However, since i could not get an hold to the original valve. I went ahead and replaced it by the 710N recirc valve as in this post: http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/v ... 24&t=19542. The result is not perfect but is 10000x times beter than what it was. Not perfect why? When starting, the engine still run slow (200 rpm) but that takes only one second or so, after that your hear "puf puf puf" (sorry) from the valve and the engine runns perfecly. I can live well with that :D

So, and in order to help others who are not sure what the symptoms are, I'll describe what mine were.
In cold/damp days engine would run at very slow speed (200rpm). while warming, revs would rise gradualy to a little bellow 800rpm. engine could not compesate loads; ex when at idle and turning the steering the revs would drop and the car would shake the whole time. When grounding the ICV (closing the ICV) the revs would not drop (I think that's because the diafragm valve was blocking the air to the icv). If pushing a little above normal and let go of the throttle, there was some chance that the engine would die.
There where times however the the valve was working correctly and none of the symptomes above were observed. In this stage, if I pushed the car in low revs and in 3rd gear or up, the load would make the car return to the blocked diafragm state.

Sorry if this was a tedious reading, just wanted to describe the symptoms so others could benefit.
Once again thanks for the help.
Cheers

Bram
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by Bram » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:13 pm

Hello everybody,

I came across this thread and this describes the symptoms I encounter with my 480 as well. The only problem is that I do not own a turbo but a regular B20F 2.0 motor. The solutions given are applicable to the turbo but as far as I know not for the 2litre engine. Is there anyone who can help with my issue?
My 480 has the following symptoms:

When the engine is cold i doesn't start without hitting the accelerator pedal.
Won't idle when the engine is cold, after a minute so or this is over
Idle when warm is about 1000/1100 rpm

The following is replaced:
- Air temperature sensor
- Spark plugs
- Spark plug wire
- Distributer
- Idle control valve (second hand)

I'm not quite sure what to do next?

Kind Regards

Bram

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by jamescarruthers » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:53 pm

Coolant temperature sensor next to No. 1 spark plug? ‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

dcwalker
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Location: York

Re: Cold start idle

Post by dcwalker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:58 pm

Beat me to it James!

Can I also suggest reading the codes from the reader on the left hand side of the engine compartment? Lots on here about how to do that and for a primitive system it can help. There are several sensors the ECU is drawing on.

How long have you had the car? How well do you know it? When did the problem start?

Silly point, but what state is the air filter in?

Come back to us - I'm sure between us we can help you!

David
Last edited by dcwalker on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 480 Celebration 467/480 (plus 2004 C70 Collection)
Previous: Celebration 346 (sold to Alan480), Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73, 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

dcwalker
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Location: York

Re: Cold start idle

Post by dcwalker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:59 pm

dcwalker wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:58 pm
Beat me to it James!

Can I also suggest reading the codes from the reader on the left hand side of the engine compartment? Lots on here about how to do that and for a primitive system it can help. There are several sensors the ECU is drawing on.

How long have you had the car? How well do you know it? When did the problem start?

Silly point, but what state is the air filter in?

Come back to us - I'm sure between us we can help you!

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 480 Celebration 467/480 (plus 2004 C70 Collection)
Previous: Celebration 346 (sold to Alan480), Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73, 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

dcwalker
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Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: York

Re: Cold start idle

Post by dcwalker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:00 pm

Sorry - I somehow seem to have managed to quote myself!! :? :lol:
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 480 Celebration 467/480 (plus 2004 C70 Collection)
Previous: Celebration 346 (sold to Alan480), Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73, 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

Bram
480 Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:58 pm

Re: Cold start idle

Post by Bram » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:29 pm

Hello! Thanks for the quick response
I own this car now for about 3 months, and this issue has been with it from the start. I don't know really much about its history unfortunately.

I forgot to say that I replaced the coolant temperature sensor as well. Thought this was necessary for my instrument temp gauge to work. But then I found out all the issues with the cluster :wink:
I should say that I replaced the air filter, spark plugs and battery too.

I also read the diagnostic box under the bonnet.
This is how it went:

At first I read the codes from socket 2. The codes prompted were:

1-2-2 = Air temperature sensor: no signal or signal faulty
1-3-2 = Incorrect battery voltage
2-1-2 = Oxygen sensor: no signal or signal faulty

After this I replaced the air temperature sensor. I removed all of the codes, went for a test drive and read the codes again. This time I also checked socket 5. Now these were the codes:

Socket 2
1-3-2 = Incorrect battery voltage

Socket 5
4-5-2 = Start inhibitor (not sure about the translation)
4-1-1 = Seat belt informer (not sure about the translation again. I translated it from a German manual)

I am not sure the the code for the battery comes from, because I installed a fresh new one. And I do not encounter any problems besides the idle.
Also the Oxygen sensor fault code dissapeared after the testdrive. Probably and old code from the previous owner?

Hope this helps!

Regards

Bram

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by jamescarruthers » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:50 pm

If you replied a sensor to repair the info centre display, then unfortunately this isn't the one that the ECS reads in order to adjust the mixture. You need to replace, or check the wiring to, the sensor next to the No. 1 spark plug (RH side). Firstly check to see if it is open circuit. It's fine to remove it without loosing much coolant (surprisingly!). 
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Bram
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Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:58 pm

Re: Cold start idle

Post by Bram » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:25 pm

Yes that's the one I replaced. As you said a little coolant came out. I thought this would fix the gauge but that was before I started reading about the 480 and its issues.

Regards

Bram

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by jamescarruthers » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:35 pm

Ah, I re-read your post now and understand you changed that one. Did you check it's resistance first if it was a second hand one? They're a bit shit and have a hard life getting boiled every day.

I would have looked at what you have too. As the idle air control valve is second hand, can remove it from the car and hold it in your hand while still electrically connected and observe whether it opens and closes or not? ‎
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

Bram
480 Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:58 pm

Re: Cold start idle

Post by Bram » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:07 pm

Yes sure I can do that. Will try that tomorrow hoping someone is willing to give a hand.
Should it open all the way up? Or is that dependant on how much the ECU tells it to open?

Kinds regards

Bram

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by jamescarruthers » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 pm

I'm not sure but I remember that I was told by an ex-Bosch guy who cleaned my injectors that it opens and does a little self test when the ignition is switched on.‎

I presume that it goes full open to start the engine. But I could be wrong. I don't have access to my Green books ‎where I think the IAC valve operation is described. 
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

dcwalker
480 Veteran
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: York

Re: Cold start idle

Post by dcwalker » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:27 pm

jamescarruthers wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 pm
I'm not sure but I remember that I was told by an ex-Bosch guy who cleaned my injectors that it opens and does a little self test when the ignition is switched on.‎

I presume that it goes full open to start the engine. But I could be wrong. I don't have access to my Green books ‎where I think the IAC valve operation is described. 
I'll try and check that for you tomorrow if you'd like - I have the books on disc...

David
Current: 1994 480 GT, 1995 480 Celebration 467/480 (plus 2004 C70 Collection)
Previous: Celebration 346 (sold to Alan480), Celebration 269 (scrapped abandoned project), Celebration 73, 1992 ES, 1988 ES - and numerous other non-480 Volvos!

Alan 480
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Cold start idle

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:46 pm

dcwalker wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:27 pm
jamescarruthers wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 pm
I'm not sure but I remember that I was told by an ex-Bosch guy who cleaned my injectors that it opens and does a little self test when the ignition is switched on.‎

I presume that it goes full open to start the engine. But I could be wrong. I don't have access to my Green books ‎where I think the IAC valve operation is described. 
I'll try and check that for you tomorrow if you'd like - I have the books on disc...

David

note that when OFF ie no ignition turned on the valve is slightly OPEN, it then closes before going to the other 'open position' during starting

so to check it is free you can move with a small screwdriver/small finger to rotate it CLOSED and it should spring back against the stop, 2-3mm open

normally they are 'un-clean'
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

Alan 480
480 Is my middle name
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Cold start idle

Post by Alan 480 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:48 pm

dcwalker wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:27 pm
jamescarruthers wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 pm
I'm not sure but I remember that I was told by an ex-Bosch guy who cleaned my injectors that it opens and does a little self test when the ignition is switched on.‎

I presume that it goes full open to start the engine. But I could be wrong. I don't have access to my Green books ‎where I think the IAC valve operation is described. 
I'll try and check that for you tomorrow if you'd like - I have the books on disc...

David

note that when OFF ie no ignition turned on the valve is slightly OPEN, it then closes before going to the other 'open position' during starting

so to check it is free you can move with a small screwdriver/small finger to rotate it CLOSED and it should spring back against the stop, 2-3mm open

normally they are 'un-clean'
Alan

480 ES 2litre x 2, C30 1.8ES, SS1

Bram
480 Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:58 pm

Re: Cold start idle

Post by Bram » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Hi all,

I just did some checks with the IAC. Your ex-Bosch guy is correct about the little self test. The unit opens en closes when the ignition is switched to position 2.
I forgot to test what the valve does when you start the car... I disconnected the 2 hoses and then tried to start the car. The engine went full on, but thats no more than logical because it gets maximum air. At least now I know the ar is able to start correctly. And with a little certainty that the IAC is the troublemaker.

Currently I am cleaning the IAC with brake cleaner because it is quite dirty. The garage placed this one about 1000 km ago and I am not sure if they cleaned the IAC before installing it. After all it is a second hand.
But why does it get so dirty as it sucks only clean air?

Later today I will check what the IAC does when I only connect the electricity

Oh yeah, I measure 0,01 Ohm resistance on the terminals of the IAC
And it springs back to the rest position when I, manually, fully close the opening

Kind regards

bram

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Cold start idle

Post by jamescarruthers » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:30 pm

Cool, if your IAC valve seems to work id look at the little switches on the throttle valve next. I am not so familiar with the 2.0 set up but on the 1.7 there is only switch which basically tells the ECU to tell the IAC to control idle when the throttle body is closed. ‎

Put your ear to the throttle body where the switch is. Do you hear a mechanical little click when you pull on the throttle cable? It should click almost as soon as you pull the cable. And click again when the throttle is closed on its stops. 
1987 Volvo 480 ES, 507274, 217 - Red (Ness)
2001 Volvo C70 2.4T convertible (Olivolvo)
2008 Mini Cooper convertible (Mau)

Previous 480's:
J123 CFU -- ES
J449 MNL -- ES auto
D864 CPV -- ES
L691 JFC -- Turbo
F70 MNR -- ES
H858 FGV -- Turbo auto
E981 KHM -- ES (509849)

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