Problem starting up the engine

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MartinP
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Problem starting up the engine

Post by MartinP » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:38 am

Hi everyone!

My 480 is getting better and better everyday now that I've been fixing the problems with it, but I still have a few things to do.
The main problem with my car is that my engine refuses to ignite if I don't use the gas pedal. And by using it I mean touching it slightly why turning the key. If I don't do this, I'll keep standing still forever, listening how the engine tries to ignite.
How do I solve this problem?

Thanks in advance!

Martin

catgroom
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Post by catgroom » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:40 pm

Hi Martin!

Seeing as youre having to apply some gas it would suggest to me the Throttle Position Sensor is worn.

Are the other ignition components in good condition?Plugs (correct ones fitted too!),leads,dist cap and rotor arm.

All of these ignition items are really important on the 480,more so than a lot of other cars.

If its the Turbo you have,correct plugs are vital.I use Denso or NGK Iridium.Magnecor leads with the 10 year guarantee are the business.Genuine volvo cap and arm seem to last the longest.

Throttle Position Sensors are available from www.eurocarparts.com or Volvo (how muuuuuuch!???)

Steve.
I'm No Longer Here :(

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34359&start=20

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:23 pm

Ok...hm, the only problem is that I don't know what they call this here in Sweden so could you perhaps point at the TPS if I show you a pick of my engine room? Here it is. Just save it on your comp and draw on it. That would really be great. Thx.

Image[/img]

catgroom
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Post by catgroom » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:39 pm

:rofl:
Sorry Martin I didnt know you were Swedish!

I laugh because "engine room" in England is a slang word for bum-hole!

OK,the TPS is audible if you move the throttle by hand.You can hear it clicking.

I cannot copy and draw because I do not know how! :(

It is under where the large rubber hose goes onto the silver metal part!

Hope that helps!

Steve.
I'm No Longer Here :(

http://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34359&start=20

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:34 pm

Oh :lol: :cry: Well, then I really used the wrong word then :lol:

Crap! Does this mean that I can't access the TPS from above?

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martinholmesuk
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Post by martinholmesuk » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:48 pm

Just open the throttle using the cable and wait for a click, Should happen as your start to turn it.

no click then it's gonna be stuffed

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:20 pm

No, no. What I ment is, how do I access it from above to exchange it?

And by opening the throttle, I suppose that you mean when the engine is turned off, right?

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Ally
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Post by Ally » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:09 am

The throttle position sensor is a small black thing with a 3 pin multiconnector on it. It attaches to the throttle body and mechanically connects to the throttle butterfly - it is held on with two screws/small bolts. Not sure which engine you have but they all look pretty much the same. Here is a picture of my 1.7 that may help.

Image

As a general rule most work is carried out with the engine not running.
Fred - 1995 480 2.0i ES - Dark Green Metallic (106,000 miles)
Dave - 1993 480 2.0i ES - Steel Grey Metallic (148,000 miles)

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:45 am

So it's that rubber which the red arrow is pointing at or is it something underneath it?

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Ally
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Post by Ally » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:11 am

It's not rubber, it's black plastic. Screwed to the side of the throttle body in my picture of the 1.7. On the 2.0 it's on the underside of the throttle body - not sure about other engine variants but in your picture it appears to be in the same place as on my 1.7.

If you have a look at the engine as opposed to just the picture you can't miss it.

Image
This throttle body if from a 2.0 but the TPS looks practically identical.
The TPS is the black bit the arrow is pointing at that has "BOSCH" written on it.
Fred - 1995 480 2.0i ES - Dark Green Metallic (106,000 miles)
Dave - 1993 480 2.0i ES - Steel Grey Metallic (148,000 miles)

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:15 pm

Ok, now I understand.

I suppose that I have to unscrew the thing that your picture is showing(not just the TPS, but also the thing that the TPS is mount on) inorder to remove the TPS, right? And efter that, replace it with a new one.

Oh, and my engine is a 1.8

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Ally
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Post by Ally » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:09 pm

The engines in 480s were either 1721cc (B18**) or 1998cc (B20F). The only variant of these engines that could reasonably be described as 1.8 was the 1794cc (B18U) which as far as I know was only ever fitted to 440s. ;-)

You shouldn't have to remove the throttle body to remove the TPS. Might be a little tricky, but easier than removing everything. It should be possible to perform all testing with the sensor left where it is.

It's worth testing the sensor you have before buying a new one as it may not be the cause of your fault and a new sensor will cost about £50 (700 SEK).

If you can hear it 'click' as you open the throttle butterfly (by turning the bit where the throttle cable attaches by hand) as others have said, then this may not be your problem. The abscence of a 'click' doesn't necessarily mean the TPS isn't working however - it doesn't make a 'click' on my 2.0 but it works fine all the same.

You can test the sensor using a multimeter (set to measure resistance) connected to two pins at a time.

The pins a numbered 3, 2, 1 as you look at the sensor:
Image

When the throttle is fully closed the resistance between pins 1 & 3 should be 1000 ohms.
When the throttle is fully open the resistance between pins 1 & 3 should be 2500 ohms.
When the throttle is fully closed resistance between pins 2 & 3 should be 2500 ohms.
When the throttle is fully open the resistance between pins 2 & 3 should be 1000 ohms.

For each pair of pins the measured resistance should change smoothly as you open and close the throttle.

These values are for the sensor for the 2.0 and I'm not sure if they will be the same for yours - perhaps someone else can confirm? :-)
Fred - 1995 480 2.0i ES - Dark Green Metallic (106,000 miles)
Dave - 1993 480 2.0i ES - Steel Grey Metallic (148,000 miles)

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:24 pm

I don't get it. How am I suppose to measure the resistance between these pins if they are normally plugged into the engine? I mean, you have to stick the + and - cable from the DMM into the pins to actually get a contact, right?

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martinholmesuk
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Post by martinholmesuk » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:31 pm

you unplug it and test across the terminals on the TPS.

and as it is turns it changes the reading.

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Ally
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Post by Ally » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:32 pm

OK...
  • • Leave the TPS attached to the engine.

    • Disconnect the multi-plug from the TPS so you can get at the pins.

    • Use one hand to hold the probes from the multimeter.

    • Use the other hand to open the throttle.

    • Measure resistance.
As I said before, I'm not sure if the resistance values are correct for the sensor on your engine.
Fred - 1995 480 2.0i ES - Dark Green Metallic (106,000 miles)
Dave - 1993 480 2.0i ES - Steel Grey Metallic (148,000 miles)

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:03 pm

Ok, I'm on it. I'll post back as soon as I know anything.

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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:54 pm

Well, I finally found it (here's a pic just to show you guys), but I just couldn't remove it for anything in the world. Man, that screw was stuck! I talked to my dad at home and he'll bring a anti corrode fluid tomorrow which you use on screws in order to untie them. There's not much I can do at the moment as more useless attempts will only ruin the screw and eliminate the possibility of ever fixing the TPS.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Image

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Ally
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Post by Ally » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:59 pm

You don't need to remove the sensor - just unplug the lead going to it. You need to squeeze the wire loop that is on the connector and it will pull off allowing you access to the pins.
Fred - 1995 480 2.0i ES - Dark Green Metallic (106,000 miles)
Dave - 1993 480 2.0i ES - Steel Grey Metallic (148,000 miles)

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:01 pm

Oooooh! Damn I'm stupid! Thx for still helping me :hopping:

MartinP
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Post by MartinP » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:56 pm

Ok, I couldn't see the 1, 2, 3 numbers as shown on your picture as my scenario looked like this

Image

As you see, the pins are visible, but the numbers aren't. I know that these pins are the ones on the cable and that you showed the ones on the TPS itself on your pic so I figured that you were talking about them and not the cable pins.

I checked both spots for resistance and got the following results:

The ones on the TPS didn't show any resistance at all. At first, I thought that the DMM was freaking out so I tried a piece of metall on the engine, still nothing. I went through the entire range (from K ohm -> M Ohm), but still it didn't show a thing. It didn't matter if I checked the resistance between the outer pins or the outer and the center one.

So I did the same thing on the cable and it showed me this:

(assuming that 1 is on the left side and 3 on the right)

between 1 & 3 : 17.23K
between 1&2, 3&2 : 9.3K

The results were the same whether the throttle was fully opened or closed.

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