wheel arch height?

James Paul · Post by **James Paul** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:10 pm

Hello all.

After looking at other 480's on the road and on this wonderfull website, I had a good look the gap between the top of my wheels and the apex of the wheel arches on both all sides and felt that the gap is too big.

Does anyone know what the standard height should be. I have standard 480 alloys and Uniroyal tyres(i.e nothing special)

If the distance is too big is this a sign of shocks on their way out???

thanks

James

martinholmesuk · Post by **martinholmesuk** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:07 pm

Hello,

Go measure it and then we will tell you! What size wheels do you have ?
What size alloys?

Martin

James Paul · Post by **James Paul** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:49 pm

Right then measurements as follows:

Front RHS 70mm
Front LHS 90mm

Rear RHS 80mm
Rear LHS 70mm

Tyres are 185 60R 14 on standard Volvo 480 Alloys

I have been deciding whether or not to have a complete stearing and suspension service, does this suggest that to be a good idea or can they be adjusted?

thanks

pol · Post by **pol** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:00 pm

Think I remember 'Ben Harris' on this forum had aproblem like this, where the previous owner had mounted rubber spacers in the shocks to raise the height for towing... Ask him what to look for...

pol

James Paul · Post by **James Paul** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:18 pm

thanks pol,

I am not sure that this is even the right height at all. There is no evidence of a tow hitch.

Ben Harris · Post by **Ben Harris** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:40 pm

Yes, I had a problem with the ride height of my 480, but it was different from the problem James appears to have. In James' case, all the wheels appear to be a different height, whereas in mine, they were the same height left and right, but just not front to back due to the replacement springs that had been fitted to the back by a previous owner for towing with. My solution was that as all the shock absorbers were worn out and needed replacing, whilst at it, it made sense to replace the springs at the same time (with lowered ones, in my case!

). Here's some pictures I took both before and after (which some of you may have seen before), but will show how high it was sitting at the at the back (the front was standard before).

James Paul wrote:There is no evidence of a tow hitch.

There's no evidence of a tow hitch on mine now either!

James Paul wrote:I have been deciding whether or not to have a complete stearing and suspension service, does this suggest that to be a good idea or can they be adjusted?

I don't think they can be adjusted (if they can, someone will soon correct me!). Due to fact that they're all different, both front to back, and side to side, I would hazzard a guess (and it is purely a guess!) that the shock absorbers are worn out (possibly more so on one side), and it's not settling level properly.

EDIT: I've just re-read your original message, and hadn't realised that you'd suggested the shocks being worn out too. In that case, consider my oppinion an independant vote for worn out shocks, rather than just agreeing with you!

Ben.

James Paul · Post by **James Paul** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:09 am

thanks for that Ben.

It certainly does look like a service is required.

Just the wrong time of year for it to happen really.

looking at the pictures i would guess that the gaps are nearly as large as the ones at the front of yours. I like the look of what you have done, much better. Something to aim for!

What size tyres have you got on your alloys Ben?

Cheers

James

Ben Harris · Post by **Ben Harris** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:29 pm

The ones at the front in the "before" pictures, were completely standard. It was only the back which had been raised on my 480. The tyres are also the standard size for the Volvo 14" Polux wheels. I've got Pirelli 6000's on it now (in the "after" pic) - 185/65's I think.

The lowering springs fitted, were PI 40mm-drop springs, which I think DBS sells (although I didn't know that when I bought mine!).

Ben.

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:04 am

I would not worry to much and see a non commercial meccanic.

note the car has to be non loaded and the fueltank empty (since it sits a bit out of the middle)

Note also that the difference between the front and the rear is normal. (since the fenders are different).

Let some one have a look to adjust the wheel height.

Donot let your selves talk around about lowering the car : it takes all the fun out of it. My friend takes his 480 real slow around the corner because he is afraid to hit some thing (mostly the tyres hit the body) and he might loose the front. As I take it as fast around the corner as the max. speed is (not forbidden!) one of the fun aspects of the car. Here in this little monkey land we have massive roadbumps every 30 meters.

furthermore i feel its very ugly. the car looks toploaded or broken.

modern cars have more and more space in the fenders (4wd's, spacewagons, etc) I even wonder what a LIFTED 480 would look like, preferably with 4wd. (like a posche cayenne)

Its also a fact its even some times worse for road handling, as all the linkage is calculated for the nornmal height.

My car was dropped, but I broke the much weaker lowered rear springs, and replaced them for normal 400 ones. since the car must be still lowered in front it is even more "wedgy"

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:09 am

volvofox wrote:
Donot let your selves talk around about lowering the car : it takes all the fun out of it. My friend takes his 480 real slow around the corner because he is afraid to hit some thing (mostly the tyres hit the body) and he might loose the front. As I take it as fast around the corner as the max. speed is (not forbidden!) one of the fun aspects of the car.

I disagree with this, I'm afraid - with my car lowered (40mm drop, 17"
rims), it now acts like a go kart - it can take corners a LOT faster than before and with a LOT more grip. I have just changed back to my 15" wheels and can't believe the difference, I almost slid off the road because I forgot to corner slower than normal

Ben Harris · Post by **Ben Harris** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:39 am

volvofox wrote:Donot let your selves talk around about lowering the car : it takes all the fun out of it. My friend takes his 480 real slow around the corner because he is afraid to hit some thing (mostly the tyres hit the body) and he might loose the front. As I take it as fast around the corner as the max. speed is (not forbidden!) one of the fun aspects of the car. Here in this little monkey land we have massive roadbumps every 30 meters.

I also disagree with this (sorry VolvoFox). I recently purchased a 2-litre 480ES to replace my lowered 1.7-liter 480ES, but came to the conclusion that the standard suspension 2-litre wasn't nearly as much fun to drive as the lowered 1.7, due to the fact that there was much more roll in the suspension (shocks are fine), basically due to the different springs. I've ended up keeping both cars, using the 2-litre for my daily drive to and from work (in comfort), and the lowered 1.7-litre for when I want to have a bit more fun while driving.

I find that the lowered 480 can go round corners much quicker than the non-lowered... at least to re-phrase that, the lowered 480 feels much more confident when going round corners quickly than the non-lowered one does - more confident that it's not going to slide. I've not had any problems with wheels rubbing against the arches either (which was one of my fears), although they are still the standard 14" Volvo wheels, and if I fitted bigger ones, they might cause a problem (Care to comment Dragon?).

The only possible problem I've encountered is that my exhaust tends to knock against the chassis when going round corners while carrying passengers in the back. However, it did used to to that before I lowered it, but admittedly not as much. I think that's just a querk of my car though, because looking at the exhaust when it's up on the ramp, it doesn't look as if it's quite shaped right near the rear of the center section - so as far as I can tell, nothing to do with the lowering!

Be aware though, that if you DO lower your car, you will have a much stiffer ride quality, and feel more of the bumps in the road.

Ben.

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:46 am

Ben Harris wrote: I've not had any problems with wheels rubbing against the arches either (which was one of my fears), although they are still the standard 14" Volvo wheels, and if I fitted bigger ones, they might cause a problem (Care to comment Dragon?).

I have had no problem with arch rubbing since lowering and stiffening the shocks, I just get a small amount of rub at full lock onto the inside of the arch/bulkhead (whatever you call it) - just below the centre of the wheel if you split the wheel horizontally, if you see what I mean? Both Lee and chris1roll have reported seeing the same rubbing on standard rims too though...

MatBat · Post by **MatBat** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:14 am

I have rubbing on inside arch, and I have 195/55/R15 V-rated on the standard 15inch Taurus wheels

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:52 am

I think stiffening the suspension is key, as the same wheels used to have a very small amount scrubbing before the car even got lowered... But as Ben said, it does change the ride dramatically - you WILL feel every lump in the road - that doesn't bother me, I horse ride after all, which is also a bumpy experience, expecially bareback

- so I am well used to it, although sometimes if I am in a bad mood, it annoys me with the state of the roads around here (pretty crap), but most of the time it's fantastic

MatBat · Post by **MatBat** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:14 am

You mean it could be an even harder ride! It does need stiffening a bit though, I think the springs are ok but the dampers are a bit soft. So you can feel most bumps but it can sometimes feel intersesting (F'#*ing Scary!) when you take a corner fast, though must admit she hasn't let go yet! Would like to have a crisper setup, though with a better 'turn in'
What do you think it will cost roughly to upgrade the shocks etc?

dragon · Post by **dragon** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:31 am

Springs: About Â£100/set. Shocks (Koni Yellow) on average Â£100/corner
(in reality it's like Â£85-Â£90 front corners and Â£100-Â£110 rear corners for some reason)

Ben Harris · Post by **Ben Harris** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:35 am

Well, DBS sells the springs, if you wanted to lower it, for about Â£80 for the set I think. I bought Bilstein shocks from EuroCarParts which cost about Â£100 for all 4 (about Â£30 each for the front, and Â£20 each for the back). I believe they're slightly uprated shocks, but probably not as much as the Koni's that Gaz has. Combined with the lowering springs, the whole suspension is definatly much stiffer than the standard suspension on my other 480. That's the price for the parts.... what it'll cost to fit (labour wise), I don't know.

Keep it in mind though, that in order to change the front shocks, you need to remove the springs as part of the process, so if you 'did' want to fit lowering springs, that would be the time to do it. The back shocks can be changed simply by undoing two bolts, compressing (by hand) the shock and lifting it out. Refitting is the reverse of removal (Haynes Book of Lies classic line there!). You don't need to remove the springs to replace the back shocks.

Ben.

James Paul · Post by **James Paul** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:16 pm

Guy's thank you very much for the responses.

I think that every possible angle has been covered here. I know that a service is long overdew, but your confidence in lowering has given me a new option of enjoying my 480 even more.

Take care and best festive wishes to you all

James

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:16 am

Please people let me have my own oppinion here. I know its hard to hear such stuff as you invested hard in this.

A friend of mine has nothing but trouble. every slight turn of the wheel the car is rubbbing the wheels. its so low they even took out the max. bump rubbers. i feel it looks ugly. Like it was filled with elephants, or has broken axles. He likes it, I don't.

I drive the hell out of him in the city with my standard (well lightly dropped at the front), because he is worried about every corner, every road bump, or every uneven road. I feel you should be able to take a road bump (traffic slow maker) with the max alowed speed.

also you feel every bone in your body as you have to drive 1500 kilometers or so on vacation.(short shocks, viberations. our car is a squeeky ghost house as it is. don't make it louder)

I had the rear spring broken, so about as low as permitted by the max load rubber, and now the kart like experience.I feel its not realy more than now with normal springs. the lotus sytem keeps my car from rolling.

When I want to go karting I hire one. besides, they are to slow.

I just want to remind the post maker that this will cost him a lot, and bring nothing, Oh, yes, maybe some more trouble and sorrow

volvofox · Post by **volvofox** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:17 am

Please people let me have my own oppinion here. I know its hard to hear such stuff as you invested hard in this.

A friend of mine has nothing but trouble. every slight turn of the wheel the car is rubbbing the wheels. its so low they even took out the max. bump rubbers. i feel it looks ugly. Like it was filled with elephants, or has broken axles. He likes it, I don't.

I drive the hell out of him in the city with my standard (well lightly dropped at the front), because he is worried about every corner, every road bump, or every uneven road. I feel you should be able to take a road bump (traffic slow maker) with the max alowed speed.

also you feel every bone in your body as you have to drive 1500 kilometers or so on vacation.(short shocks, viberations. our car is a squeeky ghost house as it is. don't make it louder)

I had the rear spring broken, so about as low as permitted by the max load rubber, and now the kart like experience.I feel its not realy more than now with normal springs. the lotus sytem keeps my car from rolling.

When I want to go karting I hire one. besides, they are to slow.

also i feel because of looks that the center of radius of the arch has to be in the center of radius of the wheels, maximum slightly under.

ps: drag on the size of wheels are another discussion. Did you know that bigger sized wheels make a greater contact surface to the road than more width ? The effect you talk about has nothing to do with lowering.

I just want to remind the post maker that this will cost him a lot, and bring nothing, Oh, yes, maybe some more trouble and sorrow